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 Post Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 438
Location: Auburndale, Florida
F636, Funny you should ask. We started back on the dyno again today. Our purpose is twofold. One, to flog the 950 above. Two, to train me how to run the dyno so the shop owner doesn't have to.

Today's accomplishment? Zilch. Nothing went right. Neither, the computer, the O2 sensor, or my laptop.

Gots work to do and I'm stuck at the house tomorrow. I can fix the 'puter and I have some carb parts to ship off. Plus, babysit the interior house painters.

One good thing. We got a couple of licks in though. The new carb is a duplicate of the HPI 950 we tested last October. It tested within a couple of HP. Our focus is to incorporate our calibration on this 950 and see how far we can take it.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 438
Location: Auburndale, Florida
Day two of the continuing E85 4150 saga. Again the O2 recorder doesn't work. Hello? Is this Phillipe?

What do we do? Tune the old fashioned way. We got BSFC plus front and rear fuel flow to work with. We made 8 pulls today. This carb as you know is a 950 HP with BLP 51241 metering blocks and Braswell stepped downlegs booster. The boosters are the only difference between this carb and the Horsepower Innovations (HPI) carb we tested last year.

The first this morning was with the HPI calibration for a baseline.

Marks Demon Shop 950
HPI carb w/ our emulsion pkg W/ our emulsion pkg
IJ 042 IJ 042 IJ 042
IAB 063 IAB 059 IAB 059
82/92 MJ 96 MJ 92 MJ
MAB 025 MAB 025 MAB 026
PVCR 066 blank blank
Emulsions Emulsions Emulsions
026 014 014
-- -- --
026 018 018
-- -- --
-- 022 022

Max HP 530.8 @ 7400 Max HP 541.4 @ 7100 Max HP 539.5 @ 7100
Max TQ 451.6 @ 5300 Max TQ 452.3 @ 5100 Max TQ 447.8 @ 5100
Avg HP 446.2 Avg HP 451.2 Avg HP 442.5
Avg TQ 426.5 Avg TQ 430.9 Avg TQ 423.1

On another pull with 93 MJ and the same calibration above with we made Max HP 537.7 @ 7200 Max TQ 456.1 Avg HP 455 and Avg TQ 435.2.

We messed with the #5 emulsion a bit but it didn't improve. What really helped was going from 025 MAB to 026 MAB. Our last few runs has a BSFC of .587. The Demon carb has a venturi of 1.50 compared to 1.375 in the 950s. We think we've got the emulsion package where it needs to be as we've horked with it enough and always seem to end up back where we were. Maybe we could drop the MJ down to 91 to see what happens but, I'm not sure what good that would do.

The HPI carb also used 50cc accel pumps from and rear where we are using 30cc pumps on the Demon and the Shop carb. So we haven't addressed drivability. That of course has to be worked out by each engine's owner.

If you want to see where all this testing happens you can see it in the newest MOPAR ACTION magazine. Kevin Willis, the third member of the Florida Carb Posse did some spacer testing for them.

That's all I can think of.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Rochester, NY
Great work Bruce. You guys are really diving deep into refining these E85 calibrations and we approximate the information.

Question - I'm currently using the quickfuel 4 emulsion blocks for my carb and I wondered what you're thoughts are re: translating your 5 emulsion set-up to the 4 emulsion blocks. I'll be going out in a few weeks and will be jetting mine down to .124's to move lambda up closer the .82 range, but after getting the main jet worked out, I'd like to start tweaking my current .028, blank, .028, blank emulsions to see what effect it has. Any insight would be appreciated.

Mark

_________________
Mark Slayton
Rochester, NY
Quick Rod 130C
Super Comp 130C


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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:40 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 438
Location: Auburndale, Florida
I see that my columns got goofed up somehow. Maybe I canget with the Administrator to fix that. The jumble now detracts from what I posted.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 438
Location: Auburndale, Florida
Let me try this:

Day two of the continuing E85 4150 saga. Again the O2 recorder doesn't work. Hello? Is this Phillipe?

What do we do? Tune the old fashioned way. We got BSFC plus front and rear fuel flow to work with. We made 8 pulls today. This carb as you know is a 950 HP with BLP 51241 metering blocks and Braswell stepped downlegs booster. The boosters are the only difference between this carb and the Horsepower Innovations (HPI) carb we tested last year.

The first this morning was with the HPI calibration for a baseline.

HPI carb w/ our emulsion pkg
IJ 042
IAB 063
82/92 MJ
MAB 025
PVCR 066
Emulsions
026
---
026
---
---
Max HP 530.8 @ 7400
Max TQ 451.6 @ 5300
Avg HP 446.2
Avg TQ 426.5


Marks Demon
W/ our emulsion pkg
IJ 042
IAB 059
96 MJ MAB 025
PVCR blank
Emulsions
014
---
018
---
022
Max HP 541.4 @ 7100
Max TQ 452.3 @ 5100
Avg HP 451.2
Avg TQ 430.9

Shop 950
w/our emulsion package
IJ 042
IAB 059
92 MJ
MAB 026
PVCR blank
Emulsions
014
---
018
---
022
Max HP 539.5 @ 7100
Max TQ 447.8 @ 5100
Avg HP 442.5
Avg TQ 423.1

On another pull with 93 MJ and the same calibration above with we made Max HP 537.7 @ 7200 Max TQ 456.1 Avg HP 455 and Avg TQ 435.2.

We messed with the #5 emulsion a bit but it didn't improve. What really helped was going from 025 MAB to 026 MAB. Our last few runs has a BSFC of .587. The Demon carb has a venturi of 1.50 compared to 1.375 in the 950s. We think we've got the emulsion package where it needs to be as we've horked with it enough and always seem to end up back where we were. Maybe we could drop the MJ down to 91 to see what happens but, I'm not sure what good that would do.

The HPI carb also used 50cc accel pumps from and rear where we are using 30cc pumps on the Demon and the Shop carb. So we haven't addressed drivability. That of course has to be worked out by each engine's owner.

If you want to see where all this testing happens you can see it in the newest MOPAR ACTION magazine. Kevin Willis, the third member of the Florida Carb Posse did some spacer testing for them.

That's all I can think of.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 438
Location: Auburndale, Florida
mslayton wrote:
Great work Bruce. You guys are really diving deep into refining these E85 calibrations and we approximate the information.

Question - I'm currently using the quickfuel 4 emulsion blocks for my carb and I wondered what you're thoughts are re: translating your 5 emulsion set-up to the 4 emulsion blocks. I'll be going out in a few weeks and will be jetting mine down to .124's to move lambda up closer the .82 range, but after getting the main jet worked out, I'd like to start tweaking my current .028, blank, .028, blank emulsions to see what effect it has. Any insight would be appreciated.

Mark


Our e-package total area seems to be just a bit less than the total area of two .026 emulsions. We've fiddled with the .014, blank, .018, blank, and .022 package a lot and always seem to come back to it. Where we did see good improvement was moving from a .025 to .026 MAB. Had we time to drill some .027 bleeds we would have tried that. We did all of our testing with Holley jets because that's what the rest of the world uses.

I don't recall your combination right off but with the QFT 4 position blocks I would try this: .014, blank .018, .022. The Demon carb used 96 Holley.

I'd like to add that the fuel flow between the front and rear bowls of the crab were genrally within a pound or two. So the balance was right. We haven't and probably won't work on PVC restrictions and jetting. Going to a .124 might be okay.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Rochester, NY
Thanks Bruce, When I get out I'll give that emulsion package a try. I think my My .127 mj translates to a Holley 99' so I'll see how that works out before making any of the emulsion changes.

_________________
Mark Slayton
Rochester, NY
Quick Rod 130C
Super Comp 130C


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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:34 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:32 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Central Oregon
Wow Bruce, those average number jumped nice with the 93 jet. You mentioned going to 27 mab, would it be safe assume the engine liked more fuel down low but went rich up top, hence the need to correct with a larger mab? Just making sure I'm in the right track with how the bleeds and emulsion correlate. Good job with this project and thanks for sharing.

_________________
Keith


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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:07 pm
Posts: 1422
Location: Florida
In the thick of all this remember that every engine will want a little different, MAB size can swing a couple thou either way on any given engine for best performance. Optimize your main jet for your engine, then go up or down a couple on the MAB to see if it helps.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 438
Location: Auburndale, Florida
F636 wrote:
Wow Bruce, those average number jumped nice with the 93 jet. You mentioned going to 27 mab, would it be safe assume the engine liked more fuel down low but went rich up top, hence the need to correct with a larger mab? Just making sure I'm in the right track with how the bleeds and emulsion correlate. Good job with this project and thanks for sharing.


Well, we may be on the right track, or we maybe optimized for this combination and the .027 may be too much. We don't know yet. Like most things of this nature, the more answers one gets the more questions there are.

We're reasonably sure the emulsion package will be a good starting point for a lot of engines. I wouldn't be comfortable with anyone just throwing in our emulsion package on thier combination and calling it good. I know some will do that but, as mark has just pointed out each combination is it's own animal.

But, I'd be telling a big one if I said I wasn't pleased with all this.

And by the way Kevin Willis is in this month's Mopar Muscle not Mopar Action. There in the spacers article you can see the dyno we work on.


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