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 Post subject: MOISTURE upon start up
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:44 am 
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The last 2 times I started my motor there was some moisture on the ground where my passenger side header was,at first I thought it was fuel or oil but it was not,it seems to be water and it is only on the pasenger side,it only happens when i start it up.could it be condensation or worse cracked block or head.it is a 4 bolt chevy 400 block and the heads are afr that have been drilled for the steam holes.The head gaskets are cometic and if I remember they are .025 thick.Anyone have any idea of what could be wrong if anything at all.

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JEFF WINTERS
1986 SS MONTE CARLO
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BEST TIME TO DATE 9.99 1/4 MILE @132MPH.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:23 am 
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If it was condensate from it running, then it would show water on both sides in the area of the collector??

There's a bunch of places that water could come from but it sounds like yours is compression or pressure related, ie, only does it when it's running.

Leave it sit for a day or two then pull the plugs and turn it over with the starter to see if any water comes out of the spark plug holes. If you don't get any water there, then I'd run a cooling system pressure test to see if it leaks under pressure. That may help you locate where it's coming from without running the engine. I'd also turn the engine over again after the cooling system pressure test to see if any water comes out of the plug holes then.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:06 pm 
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PULED 2,4,6 & 8 PLUGS WATER SHOT OUT OF NUMBER 6 WHAT NOW?

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1986 SS MONTE CARLO
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BEST TIME TO DATE 9.99 1/4 MILE @132MPH.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Hummm, let me see.

Head studs too long, if you're using studs? Make sure that the threads aren't bottoming out. Ask me how I know? O:)

Re-torque the heads?

Cracked cylinder wall?

Cracked cylinder head?

Leaking head gasket?

So how much compression is in this stock 400 GM SBC block? :-k

Is it filled with hard block and if so, how high up?

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:32 pm 
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Bet the block is cracked by a head bolt..

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:06 pm 
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Heads are Afr 210,comp. Is 11.50 HEADS R 8 YEARS OLD,BLOCK IS THE 4
BOLT BLOCK

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JEFF WINTERS
1986 SS MONTE CARLO
406 SBC
BEST TIME TO DATE 9.99 1/4 MILE @132MPH.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:06 pm 
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So Jeff, have you had this engine together for a while or is it a new build?

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 Post Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:30 am 
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Motor has been built for atleast 8 years and i have been racing it for 4-5 years was fresened up last year with new bearings and cam shaft and .025 cometic head gaskets.Last night i remembered when i sold the old pro line heads that a intake/exhuast valve had some rust on them but back then never had the water on the floor problem.

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JEFF WINTERS
1986 SS MONTE CARLO
406 SBC
BEST TIME TO DATE 9.99 1/4 MILE @132MPH.


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 Post Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:43 am 
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Had a old 400 chev block 509 casting cracked between centre head stud and steam holes use to put three bond on gasket but it would give in after awhile and leak under pressure, got s**ts with it and bought a motown.
When motown arrived it was about twice the weight of the old block I thought might go slower with extra weight but it went quicker.......nice thick cylinders staying round......also blind head bolt hole
gotta luv that.

Steve


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 Post Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:51 am 
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JEFF69Z28 wrote:
Motor has been built for atleast 8 years and i have been racing it for 4-5 years was fresened up last year with new bearings and cam shaft and .025 cometic head gaskets.Last night i remembered when i sold the old pro line heads that a intake/exhuast valve had some rust on them but back then never had the water on the floor problem.


Well it sounds like it's been going on even with the old heads so one could "assume" that you wouldn't get 2 sets of heads that leaked. Having said that, there's only the block and head gasket left and since this is a new gasket, well, you know where I'm going now. New heads, thinner gasket = higher dynamic compression so the hand writing may be on the wall so to speak.

I will mention though that MLS gaskets do require a "special" finish on both the block and head surfaces and if you didn't have it machined for same, then there could be some weeping of water from that. Just throwing that out there because I have heard of this happening.

Now that you know which cylinder is leaking, you've got a couple of choices. You could just go ahead and pull it down and pressure check the block or you could try some black pepper in it to see if it will seal it up although I doubt that anything is going to fix it since it seems to be compression related, ie, water inside the cylinder means the leak has a path to the cooling system. Removing the radiator cap after you cut it off is likely to slow it down a bit but if you try the pepper trick then you need to leave that cap on to allow pressure to push the pepper into the leak.

And finally, and not to put down your "stuff" because I'm running one now myself but these 400 SBC engine blocks are basically boat anchors. And believe it or not, the 4 bolt blocks are weaker in the main web area than the 2 bolt blocks unless the outer bolts are splayed at about 20* into the pan rail area.

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 Post Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:19 am 
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No block work was done on freshen up,so now I guess maybe a loose head bolt is out of the question.Oh well I new it couldnt last forever when I read up on the 400 blocks a couple of years ago but it got the job done while it lasted.I guess now im either going to get a new dart or motown block and reuse my heads and internals or get a new 434 built.
Thank's for the help gentlemen,
Jeff

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JEFF WINTERS
1986 SS MONTE CARLO
406 SBC
BEST TIME TO DATE 9.99 1/4 MILE @132MPH.


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 Post Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:03 am 
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Jeff we had that problem once with Dart heads. It ended up being the alum was porsis by the exhaust seat. Ray put some kind of sealer in the water jacket of the head and then pressurized it. No problems since and it has been 3 years.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:57 am 
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Used my friends contraption to pump up the cooling system first couple of pumps water ran out of #6 cylinder.got it up to 16lbs and it dropped right back to 0lbs.Sometime this week I will be pulling off the head.If the block has a crack will it be noticable?

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JEFF WINTERS
1986 SS MONTE CARLO
406 SBC
BEST TIME TO DATE 9.99 1/4 MILE @132MPH.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:48 am 
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Jeff, with it leaking as bad as you describe and if it's a crack causing the leak, you will be able to see it.

I've had several 400 blocks split the cylinders vertically right in line with the head bolts. There's a relief cast in the water jacket side of the bore to provide room for the head bolt. It makes a weak spot in the cylinders and that's where all the ones I had fail were cracked at.

They also get to looking pretty ugly between the main caps and block, but I didn't have one fail there.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Block was cracked from a head bolt hole into the #6 cylinder.

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JEFF WINTERS
1986 SS MONTE CARLO
406 SBC
BEST TIME TO DATE 9.99 1/4 MILE @132MPH.


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