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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:32 am 
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Have you heard of or used I.C.E. IGNITIONS?

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JEFF WINTERS
1986 SS MONTE CARLO
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BEST TIME TO DATE 9.99 1/4 MILE @132MPH.


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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:23 am 
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JEFF69Z28 wrote:
Have you heard of or used I.C.E. IGNITIONS?


I'd be interested in hearing what he has to say about this also as I've never seen him give positive comments about anything but an MSD 10 and a Crane HI6. :-k

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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:40 am 
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Local builder here used the ice and msd on same motor and the ice made 14-17 more hp on his dyno.
The ice is Australian made.

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JEFF WINTERS
1986 SS MONTE CARLO
406 SBC
BEST TIME TO DATE 9.99 1/4 MILE @132MPH.


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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:25 pm 
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JEFF69Z28 wrote:
Local builder here used the ice and msd on same motor and the ice made 14-17 more hp on his dyno.
The ice is Australian made.


Which MSD box did he use?

And yeah, I went and did a Google search and found out that ICE is an Aussie product. Shrinker is sure to know all there is to know about those. ;-)

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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:12 pm 
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Hi all, Yes Ive dealt with ICE ignitions a few times, Ive communicated with the designer and discussed some problems with methanol with him. Ive seen cars with them fitted and ive tried to tune them. I have always convinced the owners to remove the ICE ignition and install a crane HI-6. Ive done that by demonstrating on the spot sometimes by removing the crane from my Van and running their engine on my unit. Ive got it on a quick release board set up in the van. They ALWAYS go out an buy a crane after I do that demo. I dont sell Cranes, I make no money from the process, but I can then deliver a better tune for my customer so thats how I go about it.
Comparing an ICE as a more powerful unit for better combustion by 14 hp compared to an MSD is more likely to have had a fault with the MSD. Additionally I could think of any number of reasons why an ICE would work more power than an MSD or even a crane sometimes IF the engine is incorrectly designed.

The ICE is an inductive ignition, Inductive ignitions have much longer arc duration. The MSD 10 plus is a different story, its CDI and Inductive so its got benefits of both.
Normal Inductive ignition last around 1.5ms at high load and a CDI unit last around 180us. The inductive has 8 times longer duration so when you have an engine with average vaporization or some turbulence in the arc zone you can get a better burn from inductive ignition. But what you should be doing is fixing the problems with the engine design and then a CDI will deliver more power than an inductive and you will have more power overall.

Inductive ignition just takes too long to deliver the energy load, CDI is much faster. I describe them like this, Inductive is like pushing a person on the shoulder with a high force for a long time, its doesnt hurt them. CDI is like a WIN Chung punch on the shoulder, its short and sharp and it hurts them a lot a they react to it. The CDI may be less energy TOTAL but the delivery is more effective.

ICE ignitions are very suitable for EFI and low power gasoline racing.
But so far Ive bettered a lot of ICE installations on everything from LPG to racing fuels by using a Crane. The ICE is definitely not suitable for methanol in my opinion.


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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:11 pm 
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I should say something in case anyone thinks I'm picking on ICE.
Thats not the case, they are fine products when used in an application they are capable of. They do have some nice integration of packages etc so its a good deal to buy for someone with nothing at the start of a project. Their ignition timing curve control box that you turn the little thumb wheels is a nice unit, very useful. The voltage booster is good too.
My experience with their ignitions is they work fine and are reliable etc but the spark traces are not different to other good quality inductive ignitions. I have experienced situation where inductive ignition is not capable of lighting the flame as efficiently as CDI yet I never found multiple sparking CDI (particularly the Crane) to be inadequate. The Crane HI-6 is a conventional CDI spark profile, the MSD 6's are not. The MSD 6's have a square wave component during the duration of arc and I fail to see why you would want to do that as its a reduction of energy. MSD 7AL-2 is a good thing but the -3 is questionable on V8's. The digital 7's vary greatly in efficiency and accuracy and compliance to specification so I steer clear of them. MSD made one great ignition, the 10 plus, and now they stopped making it because they claim not enough sales. Well thats not the fault of the ignition its the fault of the dopey sales people who dont know how to tell people what they need.


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:51 am 
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Explain how the digital 7's vary in efficiency??? How did you test them?

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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:59 am 
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I gas bench tested all different ignitions. I ran a series of tests on one engine of different ignition units all with their correct coils etc as per manufacturer spec. We observed the power changes and the combustion product changes of the different units. We observed the scope trace differences too and we could predict how each one was going to perform before we even looked at the dyno results. This stuff is so predictable and yet manufacturers cant get it right. The Crane HI-6 is the cleanest burning, most efficient combustion, low cost ignition there is. The 10 plus is slightly better but much more cost. The digital 7's are very poor at flame kernel formation and one unit is not the same as the next. You can see that on the gas bench results, the carbon gases go out of balance.
Ive dealt with a few digital 7's and some work well, some dont. Some cant even get much action happening inside the chamber. I dont know maybe their made in China or something. MSD stuff has gone to the dogs lately, well at least the stuff they send to Oz has. Their dizzys dont have correct spec advance slots in them, the end float is too loose, the bearings arent lubricated, the coils are junk. Have to go through 3 or 4 coils to get a good one now days. MSD deny that their stuff is made in China and yet its printed right on the coil MADE IN CHINA. When I contact their tech department they give me the run around. Ive never had a useful answer from an MSD tech.

The digital 7's need a different style of fueling the engine. They work if your going to shove lots of fuel through the engine, but that approach wears bores. Im not into wearing peoples engines out. I work on efficiency. The application of ignition energy into the chamber has to integrate with the fuel gasification level. Have low gas level and you can make more power with a low energy ign. There is such a thing as arc strike through a mixture, too much energy actually fails to ignite sufficient mass during the arc duration. The digital 7's have a place but its not in my world.


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 am 
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So I shouldnt waste my time with the ice ignition.

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JEFF WINTERS
1986 SS MONTE CARLO
406 SBC
BEST TIME TO DATE 9.99 1/4 MILE @132MPH.


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:33 am 
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Ever do any testing with Mallory Ign?????????

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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:13 pm 
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JEFF69Z28 wrote:
So I shouldnt waste my time with the ice ignition.

I dont know what your going to do with it, but if its a racing and your going to develop an engine for years and want to try all sorts of things get a crane HI-6 with the PS-92 coil. DO NOT use the coil crane try to sell you which is the LX-91 or LX-92 coil. They are not for V8's. ONLY use the PS-02 coil and ensure that the battery voltage is running at 13.8 or above for proper ignition performance. Use MSD spark plug wires 8mm spiral core or Moroso blue max race wires they are the best I seen.
Everything that happens in an engine comes from the foundations which are carburetion and ignition.
Beretta wrote:
Ever do any testing with Mallory Ign?????????

No sorry. I did one car once fitted with it but never went into testing regimes on it as the ignition worked well.


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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:09 am 
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Ive been reading up on cranes hi-6 and was thinking about changing over from a 6al to a hi-6, which box would you reccomend for drag race only.I also have a 7al-2 if you had a choice which one would you use the 7al-2 or hi-6?

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BEST TIME TO DATE 9.99 1/4 MILE @132MPH.


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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:44 pm 
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JEFF69Z28 wrote:
Ive been reading up on cranes hi-6 and was thinking about changing over from a 6al to a hi-6, which box would you reccomend for drag race only.I also have a 7al-2 if you had a choice which one would you use the 7al-2 or hi-6?


I'm not shrinker but I've read enough of his posts and explanations of what the difference is and he's going to tell you to run an HI-6 and Crane's PS-92 coil. The only thing he likes in the MSD line is the 10 + box that they don't make anymore.

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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Yep what Ken said. You can get options in the Crane boxes like dual stage rev limiters and retards etc so its up to you. The retards are not like an MSD system, they only work statically and are not switchable while the engine is running. The best solution is to use MSD controllers with the crane box to make sparks. MSD make an ignition timing control computer, I use them to drive cranes.


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:51 pm 
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I was quite surprised when i back to back tested a Crane Hi6 vrs MSD 7al on a methanol Holden 355 engine....the crane Hi6 was about 4-5HP better..


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