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anti-roll bar tubing
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Author:  Larry Woodfin [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  anti-roll bar tubing

I need to build a custom length, custom mounting anti-roll bar.

For those who have done this, what tubing OD and wall thickness do you use?

My application is a small block door car running 5.95 1/8 mile. Weighs about 2950 with driver.

Author:  rick360 [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

I built one for a friend a long time back in a stock rear-suspension Malibu. Mid 6's at 3000#. I think it was just 1" tubing and as I type I think we may have used solid cold roll steel shaft. (weight wasn't an issue). It took a beating for quite a while (years) but was told it had bent some when it was replaced with a back-half with ladder bars.

Is it 4-link? or ladder bars? How long will it be? How far from the end supports will the connecting link arms be located?

All of these things will determine how strong/stiff it needs to be. But you can always go overkill.

If you use 4130 tubing and the supports are close to the arms I'd probably go with a real thick 1-1/8" or 1-1/4" tube.

Here is a link to the 4130 tubing at a place I've bought from that is close to here. They always ship quick.
https://www.airpartsinc.com/shopexd.asp?id=1058

Rick

Author:  Beretta [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

Larry you may want to look at S&W as I got one for my Vega a wile back and they had a lot of different lengths..

Author:  Larry Woodfin [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

Needs to be mild steel components, I do not have a tig machine. It will be about 26" long, the arms will be about 7"

The car is a ladder bar back half with double adjustable shocks. After some pondering I think a 1" DOM tube of .180 or so wall will be a good setup.

Author:  Ken0069 [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

IMHO anti roll setup is useless on a ladder bar suspension as it acts like an anti roll on it's own.

Author:  Beretta [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

Ken0069 wrote:
IMHO anti roll setup is useless on a ladder bar suspension as it acts like an anti roll on it's own.



X2.....Not needed.....

Author:  rick360 [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

Yep, my Camaro had ladder bars and never had a problem with body roll w/o an anti-roll. (mid-5's)

The rear-end housing acts like it's own anti-roll bar. You have to have a LOT of power to need one with ladder bars.

Are you having a problem with chassis/body roll? Why do you want to add one?

Rick

Author:  gearhead1011 [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

I agree with the others, not needed with ladder bars. Rick pointed out that you need a lot of HP to need one with ladder bars and IMO if you have that much HP you're better off with a 4-link.

Author:  Ken0069 [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

gearhead1011 wrote:
I agree with the others, not needed with ladder bars. Rick pointed out that you need a lot of HP to need one with ladder bars and IMO if you have that much HP you're better off with a 4-link.


Chuck I thought that exact same thing when I read that.

Not saying it can't be done mind you, just that it's awfully difficult and you may loose a significant amount of starting line performance along the way trying to get the car to handle.

Example: Local guy friend of mine has a 68 Nova back half ladder bar car with a pretty healthy 434 23* SBC. Winter before last he upgraded to a better set of heads trying to dip into the 5 second range. His car was running 6.10/6.20 before with the wheels up 3 feet at the hit.

Well, he has managed to run a 5.90 something BUT, he has spent the last two season trying to get the car to run straight again??? And it's STILL not running straight! This is the guy I was hoping would buy my Camaro and it would have made him a nice car for his setup and would probably have run 5.70s. He didn't want to spend the money in a car so it went to Sheldon French, who proceeded to put a 498 BBC in it and ran 5.26 first time out!! ;-)

Oh well, but having said all that, I do believe there is a point where ladder bar cars are just not practical and most of the time that's when the engine reaches 550 to 650 HP.

Author:  rick360 [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

Ken0069 wrote:
Oh well, but having said all that, I do believe there is a point where ladder bar cars are just not practical and most of the time that's when the engine reaches 550 to 650 HP.


I don't agree with Ken on the HP range where ladder bars reach the practical limit. If the car is low enough there is no reason it can't run ladder bars up near 900-1000hp. I've even heard of some Top Sportsman cars with ladder bars that were really fast. If its not going straight with ladder bars there is something else wrong.

Mine made 750+hp and 60' times in the 1.19 range.

Rick

Author:  Larry Woodfin [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

This is the deal, the car works fine but in talking with Marty Rinehart [Marty is an accomplished super stock racer] http://www.rinehartsperformance.com/What_We_Do.php he told me about some ladder bar set ups he has seen improve with adding an anti-roll bar. That is were I got the idea. Marty also sold me on Santhuff double adjustable front struts for the Firebird and they are very smooth.

And although it may not be a big benefit it seems to me it would do no harm.

This link shows the Firebird at North Star Dragway in Denton TX. https://secure.zenfolio.com/texpic/7918 ... gSTevffC4=

There a number of 5.80 - 6.20 range successful ladder bar cars in competition there.

Author:  Ken0069 [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

Larry Woodfin wrote:

And although it may not be a big benefit it seems to me it would do no harm.

There a number of 5.80 - 6.20 range successful ladder bar cars in competition there.


Are all these 5.80-6.20 cars running aiti-roll bar setups? How much did it pick them up, if any?

Let us know how this works out for you. ;-)

Author:  Larry Woodfin [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

Ken, good question and I plan on finding the answer. And of course, my only reason for considering the anti-roll bar is not a reduction in ET but one more tool for consistency.

Author:  gearhead1011 [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

I'm not saying it can't be done it's just from my experience the 4-link will get you there easier. My old car was ladder bar and when I stepped up the HP on it to get it in the sub 6.20 range I had trouble getting it down the track consistently. I ended up setting it up to spin the tires a little and keep the front wheels on the ground for the rest of that season then 4-linked it over the next winter. I never put an anti-roll on that car but it worked great without one with the 4-link and this was on a 95" wheelbase car.

I don't see how an anti-roll bar can help a ladder bar car other than giving you an easy way to adjust pre-load but the only way to know for sure is to try one. Like Ken said let us know how it does.

Author:  winlight148 [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: anti-roll bar tubing

Larry Woodfin wrote:
Needs to be mild steel components, I do not have a tig machine. It will be about 26" long, the arms will be about 7"

The car is a ladder bar back half with double adjustable shocks. After some pondering I think a 1" DOM tube of .180 or so wall will be a good setup.



you can mig chromoly. dont have to tig it unless its a roll cage. i dont think i have seen a mild steel anti roll bar. i would build my own. a&a chassis has the arms and there cheap. get the tubing that is required for the arms. then get some bearings or bushings, whatever you prefer, from one a supply house of your choice. there realy not that hard to make. i like a bolt in bearing, makes it easy to remove the anti roll bar. the weld in kind are a joke imo. if the bearing or bushing goes bad you have to cut it out and get another kit instead of just buying another bearing and replacing it. even if you can get the arb out without cutting it in half, by cutting the plates, its still a days job instead of a 15 minute job.

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