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 Post subject: info.
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:53 pm 
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Location: Clawson, Mi.
While attending Dave Morgans seminar sat, he mentioned that he says sorry to all the people who used his info from his book, as to line the pinion C/L up with the drive shaft for the correct u-joint angle, and that's a no, no [-X   Mis-matched drive U-joint angles will kill  a trans tail shaft every time he said, and many guys have called him on this and well, we are all human, and all he could say was he was sorry for the mistake, and to always do your drive shaft angles off each yoke (trans, and Pinion) to get the least amount of friction, and less drag, and to keep your u-joints alive and well for longer life.  As always, when the driveshaft is made, it is to be phased correctly or your complete drivetrain can take a beating and the weakest link will go first, I know many of you already know this info, just thought I would pass it on.

His class was good, followed the book almost page by page, and we set his seminar time record, it lasted 12 hours & 45 minutes O:)  O:)  so we all got our money's worth for sure.  He is a great guy, and he also mentioned shocks, since he worked for Koni, and Afco, I believe, he mentioned the best shocks for our useage for us sportsman were all dbl adj. types from Koni, Strange and Afco, yes, they cost a bunch, but when he explained how the shocks all work in these fast acting rear suspensions we drag racers have, it all made sense, so spend the cash to get the best shock you can afford.  He also mentioned that we, the racers are getting screwed by the shock companies like QA1, Comp. eng., and others with there single adj. shocks as the adj. click we are all familiar with, only actually works on about 4 of those setings and they are not in any sequence like the instructions say, 90/10, 80/20, it's all BS!!!!!!!! i FEEL LIKE A TURD NOW, AS I just baught a new set of Single Adj. QA1's for my front suspension ](*,)  ](*,)  ](*,)  ](*,)  so  I am looking at Strange now for the fronts and Afco's for the rear of my elky and I and all attendies of Dave"s seminars get discounts thru Koni, and Afco as well, and he is working a deal for free shock dynoing also with sheets to show the actual results of each shock.  See, QA1 says they dyno all of there shock, but call them up and ask for the dyno sheets for your shocks, and the girl at the desk says("OH, I CAN DO THAT FOR YA) WHAT'S YOUR E-MAIL OR FAX #)  See anything wrong with that info??? she doesn't even ask for the shock serial # [-(  [-(  so we are getting false info guys, and it is the truth, call Dave, he can verify all this info. and it pisses off the manufacturers bigtime [-X  

A key factor of setting up our cars also guys was the shocks, and to listen and look at what the shock tells up by tire wear, 60ft's and pitch & roll on the launch. just so much to learn and I am by far no expert at all, you guys are way beter than me for sure, but someday, I will be right there with ya's ;-)  More later.

John

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:18 pm 
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Thats good to know, can you tell us more especially about shocks?  I think this is a black art because seems no one knows much about them and that includes me.  Eric at AFCO has done more for me than anyone else.  Please continue.....


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 Post subject: More info.
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:54 pm 
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82Blackbird wrote:
Thats good to know, can you tell us more especially about shocks?  I think this is a black art because seems no one knows much about them and that includes me.  Eric at AFCO has done more for me than anyone else.  Please continue.....


Well, what I would do, and I just did this even though I am not at the stage of ordering shocks yet, but go to www.afcoracing.com follow the tabs and if drag racing, go to that, then select shocks, then select T2 Series Adjustable, and read on this page, then, go to the bottom and select Bearing ends, and then selecet what adj. you want, single/dbl.  On that page click on the gray box that says "How to choose your shock" and read all this info, this is what you need to know to correctly setup your chassis with springs & shocks and great stuff to read.   One thing I would also suggest if you buy Afco's is to ask them if you get a dyno sheet with your shocks when you buy them, if no, ask them because every one of there shocks has a serial # and that dyno sheet matches that number.  Dave mentioned that it is a shame how in the dark we racers are to some of the shock companies and what they actuall sell, and you will read this in the Afco site pages.  It pays to buy the good stuff in this area of your chassis if drag racing as the shocks help YOU tune to the track surface every pass.  There is so much to learn in suspensions and some day, go to the track and just stand behind the cars and watch them Pitchup, and roll to the right in the left front end, and also watch what the rear body does vs. the tire hit.  It either seperates, or squats,, and this is the info we racers need to set up our chassis's and a good video of both parts of our vehicles to really see what's going on.  Also mentioned was, that most of us are liars =; yep us drag racers don't have a clue in the seat to what's happening outside the car, so this is where your buddy, or a camera can tell you exactly what is happening, and your buddy needs to be knowledgeable too to know what to look for, but the video camera is the best tool to repeat the video on replay and watch the actions.  It is some really cool stuff that our cars do on the hit of the green light, and I can't wait to learn more in this area.  Two other areas he mentioned to be aware of is, the gear changes, and the letoff of the throttle at the end, watch and listen to what your car does during both of these actions, this info can help also tune your chasis and let you know if you have some bad preload, or corner weights setup a little off, or if you have a potential problem going on.   Want more still? =;

Another item I really couldn't believe is the travel our shocks need to be correct for our chassis's!!!!! did you know, that our rear suspensions only really need up two about 2 inches of range to work in????? and mostly less than that O:) , but if you think about it and watch the cars again, you will see how the fast and correctly chassis work on the hit, and that the shock only dampens the actions, and very fast I might add ;-)   The final thingy he mentioned is the springs, his opinion was, to buy a lighter spring from a chart, or when calculating your spring lbs. needed as sometimes your resulted calculations may have a spring rate that is NOT in a catolog???? and offered O:)  now what do you do? well, here is where Dave's idea kicks in, buy the lighter spring rate, and you need to have adj. shock mounts also to make this work correctly, you buy the lighter spring, then crank up on the adj. collar to get your rate needed! simple huh, well, a little more info is needed also,  to get all this right like (SPRUNG & UNSPRUNG WEIGHT) which is part of the calculations and total weight on the rear tires, so start ading weight into the chassis to get as close to your actual race weight as possible before ordering your shocks and springs.  Ok, that's enough, my fingers are bleeding  =;

I would read as much from the Afco site as possible as they really know there stuff, and there price reflects it for sure, but don't you want the best suspension to get the best performance fro your chassis? crap, I do O:)
Strange and Koni are also prefered brand names to get, just steer away from the QA1 stuff for pur drag racing unless you get there coil over stuff and always ask for that dyno sheet for those shocks.   If you attend a class of Dave's, you get a price reduction of either Koni, and Afco, and he is working of free dynoing for the attendies also which is very good to have available. \:D/  \:D/  \:D/  \:D/

I'm hungry, need food, more later.

John

John

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Thanks To;
DART
Motor City Muscle
Induction-Solutions
Fuelab Fuel System
D & S Engines
My Wife & Family




R.i.p. Doug Cunningham, gone, not forgotten.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:48 pm 
 
WOW according to that I'm off by a mile i'm no were near that.
What they say i need it sure would cost me to find if there right or not.

That's some good reading right there.


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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:03 pm
Posts: 87
Location: Texas Panhandle
Thank you, I still think that shocks and springs are one of the most overlooked tuning aids that we have.  I don't think you can know too much.  If you think of more please tell us.  I have QA 1's single adjustabe on my Firebird and have wore the knobs smooth turning them.  I also have data aquisition and check it that way also but I still have inconsisent 60 foots and I think I have stumbled on the answer.  I'm running a 16.5 tire on a 14 inch rim and I think the tire is acting like a nonadjustable shock and letting the car bounce with out moving the suspension.  My car weighs about 3100 race ready.  The tire is stiff wall and I also run tubes but it still doesn't respond to adjustment.  This year I'm going to change to a 14 in tire and see if it helps.  Any comments?


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