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 Post subject: C4 TRANS FROM ****
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:15 pm 
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Well trans guy called me today..Stated the converter wasn't deep enough in the pump..tore the pump up...I installed the verter and trans had 3/16 to 1/4(bottomed out)  inch between the flex and the vertor...installed .045 washers to place the vertor where I was told it needed to be...Trans did nothing..installed .100 washers thinking maybe it wasnt in deep enough.....trans tried to move but wasnt right....I'm running a J&W ultra bell ..tci 164 tooth flex,big bolt 11 inch vertor(was in a 351w car..So..I'm stumped as whats gonna be the fix?Why would the vertor need to be so far back..if I was running a mid plate I could possibly understand...but just dont know anything about these dang F.O.R.D !!!!s..
Any ideas or what to look for would be much appreciated

p.s I'm also worried if I space it bac to far,...vertor may not be in the crank enough..I also had a FORD guy friend come over and look at it and he stated the distance between the vertor and flex was right...totally  :-&

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:39 pm 
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Powerglide =;

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:22 pm 
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StrokerCamaro wrote:
Powerglide =;


NO, CHEVY POWERED CHEVY RACE CAR!  O:)

One other thought though.  How much end play is in the crank?  Seems that Sam had problems similar to this lately that were thought to be "converter" related??

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:26 pm 
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StrokerCamaro wrote:
Powerglide =;

AGREED..    ;-)

Ken I'll give it a check and let ya know...I know on a glide or turbo a double set(push bac and then pushes bac furhter) means the vertor is bac all the way or if you cant get your fingers around the bac of the verter it should be in,,,but these dang fords I just dont know!....I just can't figure why it would need to be so far bac..I did buy the J& W ultra bell at a columbus swap ,and wonder if it was a blem or somethin silly like that....I do know its marked wrong....says on the top 146 and called J&W about the entire number and they confirmed it was a SBF 164 tooth ultra and the 146 was just stamped incorrectly.. :-k
But I'll keep swinging at it till I realize how retarded these phords are  :-&  ...or I come acorss a  motor trans combo for sale CHEVY STYLE.... =;  
Thanks

p.s hopin Chuck will chime in and  have alittle insight on the prob..and any other Phord guys     ](*,)  ..

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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:08 am 
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Push the converter all the way in the pump, then measure the distance between the flexplate and the bolt pads. Should be about 3/16. One other thought, in my days of building C-4's (or any Ford trans) if you got ANY metal through the trans, you can plan on taking the valve body all the way down. You have to clean everything and making sure every valve moves freely in the bores. Even then, sticking valves were an issue. They used to make an adapter to use a Torqueflite cloth filter to keep other stuff out until everything was flushed out. The cooler needs to be flushed backwards and forwards. Any metal in a Ford trans will create havoc.


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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:28 pm 
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ANY METAL IN "ANY "TRANS IS TROUBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIVELY

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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:49 pm 
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jmarkaudio wrote:
Push the converter all the way in the pump, then measure the distance between the flexplate and the bolt pads. Should be about 3/16. One other thought, in my days of building C-4's (or any Ford trans) if you got ANY metal through the trans, you can plan on taking the valve body all the way down. You have to clean everything and making sure every valve moves freely in the bores. Even then, sticking valves were an issue. They used to make an adapter to use a Torqueflite cloth filter to keep other stuff out until everything was flushed out. The cooler needs to be flushed backwards and forwards. Any metal in a Ford trans will create havoc.


Well Think I've found the trouble...Pushed the vertor all the way bac(all the way this time  :-&  ...and measured from the face of the bell to the foot of the vertor ....1.500 plus..removed the conveter installed it in a another C4 with a stock bell...... .900 or so from the foot of the verter to the bell flat....This USED JW ultra bell is screwed up somehow..It appears much deeper than others for whatever reason...Blem?I bought it at a swap in columbus for 100.00 bucks.....looked near new...Now I think I need to call JW and ask why this thing is so much deeper and also maybe call PTC verters and ask them what my options are..Thanks for the replies everyone.

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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:17 pm 
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LIVELY wrote:
ANY METAL IN "ANY "TRANS IS TROUBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIVELY


Yes, but metal in a Ford VB is much harder to clean out without having sticking valves. The aluminum they used must must be softer and allow it to embed more metal than a Chrysler, and GM used iron valve bodies until more recent.


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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:54 am 
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Tray sorry not to be of any help here, the race auto stuff I just don't mess with much. I do have a stock c-4 bell that I can measure the depth on if that helps.  Something that did occur to me while I was reading this is that ford had at least 2 different styles of bellhousing. I believe that some of the bells bolted up with the pump bolts while others bolted to a flange on the case. Maybe that's why there are different depth aftermarket bellhousings.

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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:42 pm 
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gearhead1011 wrote:
Tray sorry not to be of any help here, the race auto stuff I just don't mess with much. I do have a stock c-4 bell that I can measure the depth on if that helps.  Something that did occur to me while I was reading this is that ford had at least 2 different styles of bellhousing. I believe that some of the bells bolted up with the pump bolts while others bolted to a flange on the case. Maybe that's why there are different depth aftermarket bellhousings.

No problem Chuck...
After doing some more measuring...seems (IMO ) the bell housing is NOT the problem...according to TCI
3 bells total
1 157 tooth with a depth of 5 7/8 deep
1 164 tooth with a depth of 6 1/4 deep case filled
1 164 tooth with a depth of 6 1/4 deep pan filled
thats  it......So I measured my depth on the bell and sure enough its 6 1/4
So ,,now I figuring the stack height(Think thats whats its called )on the converter is setup for a 5 7/8 deep bell...Make sense?Kinda does to me...So...first thing monday morning I'm calling PTC coverters...At this point I dont car what it cost..I just want it fixed.. ](*,)  ....Thanks agian for the replies.....

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:58 pm 
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Just an update on the C4 (anyone have a denonator! lol)....got it back together working,,,,drove it down the the road,,seemed o.k other than shifting from 2nd to low before a complete stop resulted in a lock up of the rear tires... ](*,) pause and then 1st gear ...then on the way back to the garage,,shifter stopped shifting!!!!!stuck in 3rd.....pulled the pan,removed the valve body found the 2nd problem..valve body bolt(little one on top by the shifter linkage came loose and jammed against the valve...(stuck in 3rd)/.....Then called Art Carr about the loc up issue ,,,,stated it was a poor design to begin with,lots of problem with this particular issue,they scrapped it and do not rebuild or repair these.Only exchange for a new design for 350.00..Geez>.
Something about a check ball between 1st and reverse that beats the crap out of the valve body case to the point it allows pressure to reverse when you shift it back to first...  #-o   #-o  errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrk...So....with xmas and all..cars put up til tax money comes in....Oh well dang fords!!!

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:13 pm 
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Good News!Car runs and drives again!!!!after a New convertor,Flexplate bell housing,(used)valve body,prob 24 quarts of fluid.....EVERYTHING works!WOOOOHOOOO...drove it around town sunday and all seems well..Even fixed all those pesky leaks that I had.Resealed the rear housing  (after filing flat) with saturn silicone  O:)  also sealed up the shiftselector as it was leaking....Now to work on installing the NAAAzz..   8-[  ...

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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:29 am 
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Hey Tray,

  I just put my tranny back in and with the ultrabell on it the converter needed to be shimmed more than before,I run a midplate on mine but I have the shim under the flexplate to make up for that,I had to shim mine 3/16" which I did not have to do before so I do think the ultrabells are deeper


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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:32 am 
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I knew you'd "git-r-dun" Bubba!   =;

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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:09 pm 
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Ken0069 wrote:
I knew you'd "git-r-dun" Bubba!   =;


Thanks....I guess its like anything if you throw enough money at, some point its bound to get better...   ](*,)    ... =;

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