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 Post subject: Digital 7 VS Crane Ign
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:33 am 
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Shrinker, With out making any other changes what would one see making a back to back swap of these Ign systems??

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:22 pm 
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Observable engine running changes depend upon the condition of the fueling of the engine. If the engine is poorly vaporizing there may be no changes observable by human sensing because the spark is not going to fix the most influential problem of the engine. Carburetion or manifold etc that delivers irregular cylinder distribution is not fixable from a spark.

If the engine design is good with minimal issues the immediately noticeable differences will be stronger idle and better throttle response. The real changes come when you improve the issues that are wrong with an engine. As improvements are made ignition load increases, that's when you start to see benefits.

If combustion efficiency measurement equipment is used the changes will indicate more efficient fuel conversion and less engine wear.

Your question is typical of a 'bolt on test'. Performing 'bolt on testing' is of no value in some cases. For instance you can bolt on an MSD 10plus to some engines and you loose some advantages over a lower powered ignition. It is necessary to understand what the environmental condition of the chamber is at ignition time. The wrong conditions can cause sparkplug electrode wear, or arc strike through or electrode overheating that lead to other issues for subsequent cycles. Tuning is not part bolting.


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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:41 pm 
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G,day Bruce,
I noticed wnen i put the hi6 on my car compared to the 6al that the idle was smoother / cleaner and it seemed to be a bit more responsive, i thought this would be good as you know the engine is on methanol and i footbrake it so cleaner is meaner off the footbrake.
Taking it to the track however, was maybe slightly cleaner on the line but quite a bit slower in et and mph.
Ran it like that for the meeting, when i got home i looked into it and found the timing was retarding 4 - 5 degrees up top.
Took the crane off, 6al back on and run it up and virtually no sign of retard, just a tad which i put down to maybe a bit of chain stretch or something?
Car was back to normal next meeting
Don't know what the reason was, maybe a dud box, i really wanted to use it as the rpm limiter is a lot smoother than the 6al.
Anyway sorry to hi jack the thread, just my observations.
Have a good Christmas Bruce and everyone!
Cheers
Paul


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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:50 pm 
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Yeah fair enough post but I've never seen any retard with any of the cranes I've fitted. So possibly a dud box as you suggest.
Edit, Tuffxf called me on the phone. In the chat we discovered that he had connected his crane to a ford dizzy designed for TFI ignition. i checked the crane website and it has information of how to connect to that ignition and its only done via the white points wire. The crane has to be triggered by the module signal not the sensor in the dizzy. You cannot use the magnetic trigger wires with the ford ignition. I suggested that's is the reason for the retard problem. So thanks to Paul for calling me.


Last edited by shrinker on Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:56 pm 
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Ive cut HI-6's open and there is a small battery inside. i dont know what it does but it makes me wonder what happens when it goes flat O:)


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:15 am 
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Nah you have to destroy everything to get inside them. there potted in epoxy. I have no idea why there would need to be a battery. Its one of those button cell things with strips attached so it can be soldered to the board. it sure looks like a battery.


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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:11 pm 
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G,day Bruce,
Just an update on the dizzy in my car, done some homework and it is a magnetic trigger only, std bosch electronic as per an xd or xe falcon, it uses a reluctor and is purely a magnetic switch and has only two wires to it, it generates its own voltage and is used to trigger a bim 024 bosch module in std form.
The tfi type dizzys, none in Aust anyway for a cleveland use a different sensor, the hall effect type, it is a different construction altogether and is powered up, it is a 3 wire setup.

The std msd trigger is a magnetic switch as well, maybe there are some slight operating characteristics that are different between the msd and the ford/bosch type.
Will check it out and let you know,
Cheers
Paul


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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:26 pm 
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From your description of the trigger you have the correct type to operate a crane so that just brings us back to a dud box maybe. Having a retard like you describe is unusual and its gotta be a faulty something.


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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:51 pm 
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G,day Bruce,
You are probably right! here's an odd one, a mate of mine has an xd sedan, 393, 4v's etc, runs low 10's, he is using a holley pro strip annihilator ign and was using same dizzy as mine, he put lower gears and bigger convertor in it and had a misfire, was fine before the change, tried a heap of things at the track, put a msd dizzy in it and the miss went away, seemed to be related to the accel rate of the engine at the time, so maybe it is something with this trigger?

I think i'll grab a msd dizzy if one pops up.
Cheers
Paul


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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:14 pm 
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All sorts of stuff can happen in racing. If its possible it will.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:47 pm 
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G,day Bruce,
Finished doing some testing on the dizzy machine, with my multi pole bosch unit ( xd - xe falcon unit ) and with a msd single pole pickup dizzy.
Tested a msd 6al, digital 6 plus, another new crane hi6 and a msd 7al2.
Degrees of retard from 4000 - 8000rpm all with 12v input .

6al , 3degrees with bosch dizzy/ nil retard with msd dizzy
digi 6 +, 5 degrees - bosch / nil retard with msd dizzy
crane hi6, 6 degrees with bosch dizzy, nil retard with msd dizzy
7al2, 3 degrees retard with both dizzys which is odd?

Shows the need to dyno with exactly the system you are going to use in he car,
Cheers
Paul


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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:33 am 
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Wow, some wierd stuff going on there. That must be how they are.


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