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 Post subject: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:19 pm 
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I'm pretty sure my Annihilator ignition control has failed. I know they haven't made any of these for over 10 years and doubt it would be worth trying to have fixed. I intend to replace it with either a MSD or a Crane. I read in a different thread that Shrinker likes the Hi-6 over anything except the Digital 10 that MSD quit making. I'm hoping for a little input on this and would like to know if anyone is running the Hi-6 and how it holds up. I talked with a couple of guys at the track and the feelings on the MSD were mixed. I used to run the 7AL2 a long time ago and never had any issues with it. The reason I went to the Annihilator is because you program the 3 different RPM limits, 2 RPM switches, start retard and a other assorted features with a keypad. Shrinker said he uses 6000-6440 with the PS-92 coil. As far as I can tell the difference between the 6000-6440 and the 6000-6424 is the 6424 has a stage rev limiter that the 6440 does not, is that correct? Also it looks like the only difference between the PS92 and PS92N coils is appearance? I have been using the RPM switch outputs on the Annihilator for my shift light but I can use outputs from my datalogger for that instead so the RPM switch function isn't an issue. The only other feature that I would like to retain is the start timing retard. Is there a feature on either of the Hi-6 boxes that will allow for start timing retard without buying the 6000-6425 control?

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:21 am 
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Chuck I never had anything but MSD and never had any issues except with a 7al that I sent back and they fixed it for $90 bucks..I also had a 7520 Digital 7 plus that has what you need and should have got one for the Beretta but went ahead and got the Programmable 7 7530 that has all the bells and whistles but I don't really need it as the 7 plus would have been fine.
The 7 plus has all the RPM adjustments right on the end of the box so adjusting it is simple as with the Programmable 7 you need the lab top...Or the hand held adjuster..
Chuck one other thing to consider 95% of the guys at the track run MSD and if there was an issue some one there usually has an extra box as when I had the Vega with the 7al in it and had the problem at the track two guys had a box they offered for me to use and I used it for 2 weekends till I got mine back... =;

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:53 pm 
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Well Barry I'm kinda shootin' for a unit that I won't need a spare or have to borrow one =; . This Annihilator that I have been using I have had for at least 10 years. I bought it from a guy that traded another guy for it and neither one of them had installed it and I have never had any trouble with it. I did talk to a guy at Holley today about it. When you call their tech help you have different prompts for the type of product you need help with and of course they don't have anything as far as ignitions go so I selected carburetors. When I told the guy that took the call what I was dealing with he told me to hang on a minute while he located the one guy there that was around when they had them, that knew something about it. This guy suggested it might be the coil. I pointed out again the tach dropping out when it happens and he said it could still be the coil causing that. He also let me know that these things never were repairable because of the way they're made. I think I have an old mallory coil in the garage so I'll have to see if it's compatible with CD ignition and maybe try it. I know from the data logs that the battery voltage is good (13.5 while the car's acting up) but I need to make sure it isn't putting out too much ac.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:05 am 
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Chuck, My suggestion was only "If" you had an issue with a MSD you should be able to locate one in the pits somewhere as some one would have a spare. Not like the Holley one you have now.I have not seen one of them in a long time..
And let's face it everything brakes sometime..

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:24 am 
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Yeah Barry that was just a little humor there.

I worked on it some last night and was going to try a different coil but I can't seem to get it to act up in the garage. I even did a couple of burnouts trying to get enough load on it. I talked to a friend and he thinks he has a MSD and coil he's not using and if he doesn't his brother should. My plan is to make up connectors and hang his stuff in the car and take it to the track. I figure I'll make passes changing the coil first then the box if the problem is still there. Then I'll but whatever I need.

I had to rewire my shift light because the current set up uses the ground circuit and my data logger uses the 12v to activate. I had my 12v for the light tied in with other 12v stuff so I had to separate that circuit and run it to the logger. I can't bring myself to just string another circuit so it took a little while to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:46 am 
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I went to the track and tested today. I got there just after 2:00 and we got in the lanes for the 1st session of time runs that started around 3:00. There weren't a lot of cars there and we managed to get 5 time runs in before we left somewhere around 5:00. I had borrowed a MSD 6 box and had an old Mallory coil that I used to test with. I managed to mount the extra parts in the car and put terminal ends on everything so that I could just plug in either boxes and coils in any combination. The 1st pass I left everything like it was last time out just to make sure the problem was still there. I could feel it in the burnout but attempted a pass anyway. I lifted just into 2nd gear and I think it was running worse than ever. 2nd pass I plugged in the MSD and because I don't have a 2 step for this one I kind of messed up on my launch RPM. I wasn't real concerned about laying down any great passes so I didn't care about the launch RPM. I could definitely tell it was running better but could still see the tach jumping around some and could feel it miss. I ran a 5.69 on that pass so I felt I was headed in the right direction. There was still a lot of "static" on the engine RPM graph so I knew there was still something wrong. 3rd pass I hooked up the other coil with the MSD and it ran about the same as the second pass with a similar RPM graph. For the 4th pass I put a new set of plug wires on it and left the it on the same coil and box and it ran about the same as the 2nd and 3rd passes. By now Greg and I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with the Annihilator box but the MSD must just be more tolerant of what ever interference or electrical problem that I am having with the car. So for the 5th pass I disconnect the alternator. I thought I felt the car miss once but I think it got against the rev limiter. It seems I didn't have the shift light working and I wasn't even coming close to hitting my shift points. The highest chip I could find for the MSD was a 8600 and it looks like I was real close to that on my 1-2 gear change. The last run was the best of the day and the graph looked a lot cleaner than all the others. Here's screen shots of the RPM graphs in order
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I was going to plug in the Annihilator box and leave the alternator unplugged but Greg talked me out of making any more passes. He said that I had to know there was electrical problems with the car and it didn't look like it was with the ignition and I was just putting extra wear on the car. We decided it might be a ground problem and the extra load from the alternator may be making that worse. I think the alternator may have a rectifier problem also and may be making more AC current than the ignition can handle. I did notice the shift light which is now hooked up to the data logger would flicker a little when running the engine RPM up with the car standing still and didn't see any of that with the alternator unplugged. I will run some dedicated grounds from the battery, clean up the ground points on the chassis, take the alternator to the rebuilder and try to get it back out for some testing Wednesday. We have a race at Mountain Park next Saturday and I'm still only 9 points out of the lead so I really need to get it straightened out this week.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:28 am 
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Could have unplugged the tach also. I have seen them do some weird stuff..

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:30 am 
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Beretta wrote:
Could have unplugged the tach also. I have seen them do some weird stuff..



No racing here this weekend as it's,,,,yep you guessed it :- ...It's raining ](*,)

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:46 am 
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Beretta wrote:
Could have unplugged the tach also. I have seen them do some weird stuff..


That was one of the things I did at the last race with no change. It was in my other thread "UMTR at Thornhill Dragstrip"

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:42 pm 
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Location: Elizabethtown, KY
Did you go to Hardinsburg? We took the weekend off and finished the trim in Jake's Bathroom. Next week weather permitting Outlaws at the valley and then Joliet the week after NMCA. Good luck next week at Mountain Park. \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:57 pm 
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WR169 wrote:
Did you go to Hardinsburg? We took the weekend off and finished the trim in Jake's Bathroom. Next week weather permitting Outlaws at the valley and then Joliet the week after NMCA. Good luck next week at Mountain Park. \:D/ \:D/ \:D/


We went to the Valley just because it's closer.
Good luck to you guys too.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:05 pm 
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Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:31 am 
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I tested tonight and it looks like this problem is fixed. I ran a 10 ga. ground from the battery to the ignition box, a 10 ga. ground from the battery to the engine and both heads, a 10 ga. 12v wire from the battery cut off to the ignition box and a 10 ga. 12v wire from the battery cut off to the alternator. I have the original Annihilator and ignition coil hooked back up and I had the alternator tested by the guy that rebuilt it. He didn't find anything wrong with it. I could tell the problem was gone when I did the 1st burnout and the run confirmed it. The engine RPM graph is back to normal too.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:11 am 
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So what changed?? After all these years, now it starts to be finiky about grounds and power source? :-k

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 Post subject: Re: Ignition control
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:42 am 
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Yeah Ken, go figure. I know when you call any of the tech departments like MSD with a problem the 1st thing they question is grounds and power source. When I built the car I just used the chassis for grounds and pulled the power off of the heavy battery cable at the solenoid. That was good for 5 years. I guess there is a certain amount of "noise" that can be eliminated by using dedicated circuits. I always doubted the need for dedicated grounds and power sources but not now, seeing is believing.

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