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 Post Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 1:09 pm 
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With out writing a book about this, I changed one thing on my small block car over the winter. I replaced the Locked out Hei with a 85551 msd dist. and locked it out as well. Set the timing where I always run it at 35 degrees and the car is a pig now. I lost a 10th on the 60 a half a second on the 1/8 and several mph like 6 or 7. I did install new tires just like the old ones. I have had several conversations with msd and am not getting anywhere. While at the track I increased timing to 38 degrees and the car ran the same as the previous pass. In testing in front of the shop the car seems to respond to 45 degrees total with the msd. I then reworked the hei and installed it and set the timing to my normal 35 and it feels the same. Rained us out last nite if I get to go tonite i'm going to advance the timing until it slows down or starts to ping. I have tried so much I will be hard to post all of it on here. So if you have any thoughts or suggestions please don't hesitate to post them.
Thanks Greg :-k


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 Post Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 7:37 pm 
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timing is timing, if you set it at 35deg it should be at 35 deg. something else is hindering you. check your firing order. it is not hard to mix this up chasing wires. did you change tire size? did you pop a rocker maybe and lose a cylinder? while engine is cold fire it up and check header tubes for heat. you can find a cylinder that is not firing, eg no spark, no fuel, rocker poped. a heat gun is good for this or even a spray bottle of water to see if header produces heat at port. dont take too long or heat will transfer. :-$

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 Post Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 7:42 pm 
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i just relized that it has set all winter, check fuel pressure and do a compression check or better yet if you can do a leakdown test. to eliminate valves leaking from sitting. also will want to check valve spring pressure. were valves backed off for winter? if not one or more valve springs may have gone away. hope this helps tony.

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 Post Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 1:34 am 
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Thanks for the suggestions Tony, firing order is good, tires are the same size as before. fuel pressure is constant 7 psi to finish line. I just ran it tonite at the track and it was consistent. But times are slow and it feels real lazy. I bumped the timing all the way to 45 degrees and it ran the same ET. I will run a compression test and a leakdown on it and see if I see something. Those angle plug heads make that a chore. Reset valves and all was good there, I will see if my on engine valve spring checker will work on these heads.


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 Post Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 6:58 am 
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ok, let us know when you have checked the leakdown and spring pressures. 45 deg is alot of timing. i would not go over 36.tony.

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 Post Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:43 am 
 
I know this may sound dumb, but I have seen it affect me as well as others, and that is the little things we seem to miss.

Check your fuel filter and air cleaner.

A fuel filter with just a small amount of junk from sitting can really slow you down, and a good friend went out friday night, made one pass in his c06 vette and ran a 13.57, changed his air cleaner and proceeded to run a 13.35, 13.38, and a 13.33


Last edited by chevguy65 on Sun May 28, 2006 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:02 am 
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It does not sound dumb Carl, I can't get an air cleaner on this combo. But I have not checked the fuel filter, it is a cannister type back at the pump. I will check it for sure, it holds one qt. of fuel so it would have to be stopped up really bad but stranger things have happened.
Thanks, Greg


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 Post Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:09 pm 
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Something just is off here..If you advance the timing that much from 35 all the way to 45 and didn't slow down something just isn't right. I would think the thing would be popping or something that far advanced..
the distributer is the only thing you changed.. :-s

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 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 3:13 pm 
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is this a slip collar distribitor? i beleive it is? how did you lock it out? i just talked to msd about this not to long ago and they were asking me about rotor phasing. but in the same breath they told me that it made no difference in preformance.go here:
http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/tech%20b ... hasing.pdf
this is on rotor phasing. also this is a dumb question but check and make sure you have the power wires to the distribitor wired right. i assume that ur running an msd box.
http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/tech%20b ... rigger.pdf
hope this helps. you could have the positive wire connected the the negitve to the box.

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 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 3:35 pm 
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Buffjhsn wrote:
also this is a dumb question but check and make sure you have the power wires to the distribitor wired right. i assume that ur running an msd box.
http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/tech%20b ... rigger.pdf
hope this helps. you could have the positive wire connected the the negitve to the box.


I was thinking that exact same thing but I was assuming that he had used a pigtail on the original MSD to HEI connection so there was no reason I could think of for the polarity to be wrong. I guess anything is possible though, ya think! =;

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 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 4:53 pm 
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Ken0069 wrote:
Buffjhsn wrote:
also this is a dumb question but check and make sure you have the power wires to the distribitor wired right. i assume that ur running an msd box.
http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/tech%20b ... rigger.pdf
hope this helps. you could have the positive wire connected the the negitve to the box.


I was thinking that exact same thing but I was assuming that he had used a pigtail on the original MSD to HEI connection so there was no reason I could think of for the polarity to be wrong. I guess anything is possible though, ya think! =;


you know ken, they say great minds think alike...

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 Post Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 9:33 pm 
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This dist. does not have a slip collar. To lock it out you remove the gear and pull the shaft out and set it in the hole on the other side. It has a nut on the bottom that you tighten to hold it. I've been running this box for a couple of years now. Msd told me to reverse the pickup wires and check the timing. I did this with my hei and the msd dist. and each time it double the timing. Msd said to leave it wired at the lowest timing witch was how it came. The wiring to the box is correct. The car will not spin the tires in front of the shop as it used too. I,m wondering if I rolled a sprag in the trans[ T 350 ]. But even if I did, 45 degrees timing should have hurt performance. I did not work on it today as I finished a glide I had scattered all over the shop. It will go in this car anyway may just pull the trans. this week to have a look. Keep the suggestiong coming. this thing has got me puzzled bad. Have not checked rotor phasing yet, but msd tech said I could be off up to 20 degrees and not have any effect.
Greg


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 Post Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 3:53 pm 
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you know this sounds kinda funny to me. it seems that what your seeing on the balancer as timing isn't the same as what the motor is running on. does the timing move at all if you rev the motor up? if so then you may have cam walk or timing cover deflection.

but in the same breath you had no problems w/the hei so why all of a sudden? you stated that you changed tires as well. when you compare a run from this year to last year, where is the preformance suffering? 60 ft? 330? 1/8 mile ? all the above?

you could always take both distribitors to the track and make a baseline w/the msd in it. checl your timing and set at whatever you normally run (35* i think is what you said).
now remove the entire distribitor and put your hei in it. set the timing at the same (35*). make another pass. you may find that your not off at all.

mabey they put in a new timing system over the winter and the timing blocks are not in the same spot. anything is possible.

did your hei have an advance system on it at all? if so what rpm were you setting the timing at? i'm sure that you know that you hafta rev the motor to about 3500 to make sure there is enough centrifical force to put all the timing in the motor(push the weights out).

let me know if i'm off my rocker or you tried this all already!
corey

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 Post Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:06 pm 
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I am man enuff to admit a mistake. I made an ASS out of this one, because when you ASSume things without checking, it will bite you in the ASS. One of the NEW autolites I put in earlier was bad from the start up. It will not fire at all. I could not hear it, it would not skip,fart nothing to lead me to believe it had a dead cylinder. I shorted the plugs through the boots with a test light and no. 3 was dead. Cranking compression was 190 and the leak test was o.k. The engine sounds entirely different now. I checked everything you could imagine but the easy stuff. I guess I always fear the worse. Gotta go now and finish kicking my own ass,HARD. #-o #-o #-o [-(
Thanks for all the advice.
Greg
Y'all can talk about me now. =;


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 Post Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:52 pm 
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i think we had covered a lost cylinder in first post. glad too see you got it. we all miss things that is what makes this forum so great. the use of many great minds. we just need to sort through the feedback and listen and take it all in............. dont beat yourself up!! we all (doit) do it.. \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

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