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 Post subject: Starter problems..
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:59 am 
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I have a 1969 Camaro with the original wiring harness in it. My problem is after the car reaches operating temp. Then sits in the lanes. The car won't start with the key. I have to start it with a push button I have under the hood. Once the engine cools down the car starts with the key. I have replaced the switch that is mount on the column. Still won't start when hot.. Any ideas ????


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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:15 am 
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Did you try another starter solenoid?  I've seen this problem before on Chebbies and other vehicles and it has to do with, IMHO, the size of the wire that goes to the solenoid to activate it.  Once heat gets into the system resistance builds high enough that you get a voltage drop that won't activate the solenoid.  The solenoid is an electro magnet that pulls the bendix in and if there's not enough voltage to make that magnet work it won't start.  The start button you have under the hood probably has a larger gauge of wire and a shorter run as well.

I have used a (cough, puke wheeze) ford soleniod add on to make the voltage drop less at the Chebby solenoid.  It's relatively simple to wire and works on everything I've ever used it on.

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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:49 am 
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Are you using a stock chevy starter???  Cause the aftermarker ones like tilton's use a spade connector..I crimp and put a spot of silver solder on it cause I did have the same problem you did.........once =;

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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:48 am 
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How close to a heat source are the wires from the key switch run ?

if it works off of the push button, but not the key then its my guess thats its the routeing of the wires or the connection at the starter.

Have you checked for voltage at the starter from the key switch wires during this no start situation ?


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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:14 pm 
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Kenn I did have a remote solenoid. But removed it. My enigine was kicking back when trying to start it.(breaking starters and flexplates) I was told that remote solenoid was the problem...
Barry I am using a Powermater XS. I have used a GM mini starter and Tilton. Still have the same problem.
Duane, The wire from the key is run along the firewall to the starter. Yes it is close to the headers ...I have not check voltage at the starter yet...
Thanks everyone


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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:44 pm 
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Make sure you have a good battery to chassis ground. cameros threw early 70s was famous for bad grounds and did strange things. Not starting with key was one. Burning up resistor wire along with loom was another. I had one that decided to ground threw the shifter to floor console and welded it in park.

I bought a brand new 67 SS 350 4 speed and it didn't make it home because of bad ground, burnt the loom up about a mile from the dealer. It acted funny when I started it.  It wasn't so funny when it died.

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:50 am 
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Are you sure you battery is good??? A weak battery will do it also..As would bad connections or grounds :-k

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:36 pm 
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Barry the battery is a few months old..
Bubstr,I have the negative cable from the battery mounted to the chassis. Then from the engine block to the chassis.


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:54 pm 
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If you have moved the battery to the trunk make sure the cable is a heavy enough gauge. I usually go overboard with that cable because there is a voltage drop in that cable that gets worse with length.  Even if the battery is in the stock location make sure the cables are heavy enough. I have run into this problem before on some of those older chevys. Part of the problem is the wire to the starter switch is barely heavy enough when the car was built. Then factor in the age of it and all the drop you have in each connection, starter switch and neutral safety switch. While it is acting up measure the voltage at the start terminal at the starter while an assistant holds the key in he crank position. It should be at least 85% - 90%  of the battery voltage. Sometimes you have to rewire the starter circuit from the switch. Of course adding a small relay near the starter is a lot easier to do.

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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:24 am 
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I ran the rear mounted battery ground straight to the starter mounting bolt and the difference was amazing hope that will help also I have learnt that having a ground wire the same size as the feed wire usually cures most problems I had it happen on my electric fan also ,
Royz


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:37 pm 
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The battery is still mount under the hood. I have up graded the battery cables to bigger wires.


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 Post Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:05 pm 
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Hey RT does it turn over but just not start? If so they have a different circut for starting than they do for running. the power going to distributer goes threw a resistance wire when running, it goes threw no resistance wire when starting. this is to have hot spark for starting but not  to burn distributer points when running.  This is the problem area I have seen at least 3 times starts. the resistance wire gets hot it some times gets an iffy circut then creates heat to destroy wires next to it, that being the other distributer wire or the one going to the starter. My local Mr Goodwrench told me that the main culprit is grounding. even though they are there they at times are not doing what they are supposed to be doing.if you look there are little ground wires all over the car. it was a weak spot in the early Cameros. I changed to a resistor block rewired starter and hot lead to distributer and made a new ground system. I think it has something to do with the rubber mounts on the sub frames. Try a jumper cable ground to starter and a different lead  to distributer hot connection. If that temp fix helps it could be your problem. Would be easy to do. You should be getting about 6 volts at distributer wire while running but 12 when starting. I'm not sure but I think the starting circuit goes threw the starter solenoid for the distributer hot lead. And the running circuit goes back to key and threw resistor wire to distributer. I'm a better plummer than electrician lol

I feel sorry for ya bud, these things can make you pull your hair out. Once you isolate the specific problem, you can look for the cause. You know it is being by passed with your jumper. Isolate it farther.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:27 pm 
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Bubstr
The engine doesn't turn at all with the key(when hot). No clicking from the solenoid. I have a push button under the hood to start it. If it doesn't start with the key. I have to pop the hood and push the button. It always starts with the button under the hood. This sucks when you are all belted up in the car with your helmet on and the car won't start. I am going to reroute the wire coming from the key to see if that helps...
Thanks for eveyone help.


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