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 Post subject: Gremlins still!
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:03 pm 
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Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

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 Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:15 pm 
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Still got the miss??


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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:04 am 
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gdmii wrote:
Still got the miss??




Is that what those single spikes are?


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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:36 am 
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Yup, some way or another that thing is getting spikes in the trigger, which caused a flutter/miss when this happens.  It started this last time out and is still there even after I changed out everything else in the system, ie plugs, wires, cap, etc.

Posted this on the MSD forum yesterday.  Maybe they will answer me now since they didn't bother to answer the Email I sent them over a week ago.

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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:40 am 
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Might have to try another pickup.


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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:56 am 
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ken I am assuming the data recorder is picking up the engine rpm signal straight from the "tach" output from the MSD box. If this is the case, the pickup side of the circuit would almost have to be at fault since the MSD uses that for tach and they both flake out at the same time. Bad power or ground would be the only other possibility.

By "pickup side" of the circuit I mean pickup or cable and possibly MSD box since the trigger input circuit may have become flaky. Is the pickup gap even at all 4 magnets on the wheel? I've see the wheel not cenetered properly if it is for the wrong balancer. Are the wires from pickup to box twisted the entire run? Is it the MSD extension cable? Does it run close to the coil, distributor or plug wires or other electrical noise sources?

Rick


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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:37 am 
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Rick360 wrote:
ken I am assuming the data recorder is picking up the engine rpm signal straight from the "tach" output from the MSD box. If this is the case, the pickup side of the circuit would almost have to be at fault since the MSD uses that for tach and they both flake out at the same time. Bad power or ground would be the only other possibility.

By "pickup side" of the circuit I mean pickup or cable and possibly MSD box since the trigger input circuit may have become flaky. Is the pickup gap even at all 4 magnets on the wheel? I've see the wheel not cenetered properly if it is for the wrong balancer. Are the wires from pickup to box twisted the entire run? Is it the MSD extension cable? Does it run close to the coil, distributor or plug wires or other electrical noise sources?

Rick


Rick this just showed up the last time I was at Roxboro.  It worked fine on the first pass then this showed up on the second and has been there since.  I did find #8 plug wire across the pickup cable and moved those pieces and was thinking that was the problem but I guess not.  I even disconnected the tach connection yesterday and it was still there.  The pickup wheel w/magnets is a perfect fit on the ATI damper so that's not it.  Sometimes it does it in low gear then at other times it's in high and some in both?

I'm going to the MSD site now to see if anyone has any input on this.  Might know that some s**t like this would show up just when the weather is statring to break.  DAMNIT!

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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:12 pm 
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Ken what is your gap in the trigger to mag?? Msd told me awhile ago to keep on unscrewing the magnet a 1/4 turn at a time till it won't start. Then screw it back in 1 half turn and if it starts lock the nut. Your good to go =;

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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:31 pm 
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If you have a problem on the secondary side it can cause problems on the primary (pick up) side due to rf noise. There could be a problem with the ignition coil too and I'm sure everyone knows it but I will say it anyway, you can't use a solid core plug wire with any of these ignition boxes. Ken you run an alternator right? i would make a pass with that disconnected, it may be spiking or producing too much ac voltage and messing with the electronics.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:42 pm 
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gearhead1011 wrote:
If you have a problem on the secondary side it can cause problems on the primary (pick up) side due to rf noise. There could be a problem with the ignition coil too and I'm sure everyone knows it but I will say it anyway, you can't use a solid core plug wire with any of these ignition boxes. Ken you run an alternator right? i would make a pass with that disconnected, it may be spiking or producing too much ac voltage and messing with the electronics.


Chuck the wires are new from MSD and I haven't run solid core wires since 1970.  The alternator fields are dropped out on a pass so it's not charging at all then.  I checked the Ground connection and it was tight.  Power comes from the starter solenoid/battery terminal and I checked that also.  

Barry the instructions that came with my MSD pickup says .050 to .080 clearence.  Mine is about .060.  I guess I could move it out a little to see if that changes anything.

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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:48 pm 
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Barry the instructions that came with my MSD pickup says .050 to .080 clearence.  Mine is about .060.  I guess I could move it out a little to see if that changes anything.[/quote]

I don't think you will see a difference in moving the gap. I had a high speed miss like that and a new pickup fixed it. My wheel slipped and smacked the pickup, new ati balancer fixed that as well.

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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:46 am 
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Same as everyone else has said, maybe some ground sleeving over the pick up wires, grounded at the MSD end,

PS what does the 0 to 100 scale on the graph represent ?

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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:55 am 
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greetings Ken

do you run 16 volts or 12 & do you have any way you can monitor the voltage going to the ignition whilst your running the car as my hunch is that you have a voltage drop to the ignition supply

can you run it with the Alternator powering the car all the way down the strip to see if it makes a difference

regards
rod

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:37 am 
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Sam wrote:
Same as everyone else has said, maybe some ground sleeving over the pick up wires, grounded at the MSD end,

PS what does the 0 to 100 scale on the graph represent ?


Sam the thing that confuses me is with not much of anything else changing this problem showed up?  Most everything else in the system was replaced and I made sure I had plenty of room between the trigger wires and the plug wires and the problem is still there.

Those numbers don't mean anything that I know of.  There is another drop down box that tells the actual RPM at the point where that vertical line intersects the run graph.

rodrocket wrote:
greetings Ken

do you run 16 volts or 12 & do you have any way you can monitor the voltage going to the ignition whilst your running the car as my hunch is that you have a voltage drop to the ignition supply

can you run it with the Alternator powering the car all the way down the strip to see if it makes a difference

regards
rod


Yeah Rod, I can bypass the switch on the carb to make it charge all the time.  It's a 12 volt system.  MSD says their stuff is designed to work down to 9 volts.

The things running during a pass are the ignition, CSR water pump, solenoid shifter, and delay box.  I turn off the fan at the starting line and the fuel pump is belt driven.  There hasn't been any starting problems with it either.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:20 am 
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Ken you have a PM!!!!!

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