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 Post subject: Race Gas
 Post Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:33 am 
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Does race gas pumped out of an underground tank lose something while being stored? I've been told to only buy fuel in sealed containers, but rarely do.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Gas
 Post Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:17 pm 
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It really depends on the fuel, the temp it's stored at... Racing fuel typically has a fair amount of lighter hydrocarbon compounds, some that will evaporate quite easily. Most of your larger fuel tanks have vents, unless the are allowed to hold in some pressure the lighter ends will evaporate. Ask anyone running Q16 if they leave fuel in the car and what happens when they do, they lose power. Fuel that has lost its lightest components will not vaporize as well, not distribute as well in the intake, and make you run richer to compensate. You can raise the engine temp to help it burn, but that will lose power. The best thing to do is find what fuel you want to run, tune for it, and stick with it. If you run a class where all out power is important, make sure you keep the fuel sealed.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Gas
 Post Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Yes , race fuel stored in large tanks can lose some performance over time . And there are numerous reasons why . Legally , fuel tanks can't be vented to the atmosphere . So gasoline stations have vapor recovery systems on their in ground tanks . Tanks at speed shops and racetracks aren't as carefully regulated , so some are vented to the atmosphere . That allows the light ends to evaporate out , not a good thing , and allows moisture from the atmosphere in , also not a good thing .

Gasolines ( including all race gasolines ) will tend to sweat out moisture during big swings in temperature . Underground tanks can also accumulate moisture from poorly sealed tank lids . All tanks are designed to keep water separated from the fuel by leaving a portion of the bottom of the tank untapped . Meaning , the pickup for the pump doesn't extend all the way down to the bottom . That allows moisture to collect there . Depending on the size ( gallons ) of the tank , the distance from the bottom of the tank to the actual pick up will be from 4 inches to several feet . If tanks are regularly and properly maintained , the water and other contaminants are removed at regular intervals . If not , then the water and contaminants continue to accumulate until they are sucked up into the pump and dispensed . All tanks should have a filter or filters at the dispenser .

Race gasoline has a shelf life . Up to a year and a half ( maybe two years ) if stored and handled perfectly . About half that long if handled or stored incorrectly . Highly oxygenated and specialty fuels even less . Race gas in a very large tank doesn't necessarily get cycled through completely , and that can lead to contamination of the fresh fuel being pumped in .

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Mike Croley
Master Dist. for Renegade Racing Fuels
www.renegadepro1.com


Last edited by Mike Croley on Thu May 10, 2012 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Race Gas
 Post Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:24 pm 
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But don't panic , just be aware . If a race fuel dealer or gas station has race fuel underground but doesn't seem to move a lot of it , it probably isn't up to the job you need it for . And by that i mean it might not support the compression that it would if it were fresh . For example , if you use 110 , and your engine combination really could get by with 107 octane , then fuel that's lost some of it's performance isn't going to have a huge effect . If you were right on the limit with fresh 110 , you might very well encounter a problem if you use race fuel that's been sitting for a long time .

Two things you can count on from old or improperly stored race gas are getting bounced in a fuel check from a major race series , and a loss of throttle response and torque from the light ends having evaporated . The light ends as they're called are the vapors you see escaping from the container as you're transferring race fuel from container to car or container to container . Those vapors are very important to the way race gas works and should be contained as well as possible .

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Mike Croley
Master Dist. for Renegade Racing Fuels
www.renegadepro1.com


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 Post subject: Re: Race Gas
 Post Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:35 pm 
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Race fuel purchased in factory sealed 5 gallon cans or drums is the best way to ensure you're getting the best possible product . But a lot of races are won every weekend by race fuel that came from an underground tank .

If you do use race gas from sealed containers , here are the steps required to keep it as fresh as possible .
Leave it in the original container , the less you transfer the fuel the better .
Do not store race fuel in plastic jugs ever . Store race fuel in proper metal containers . If you feel you have to store it in plastic jugs , only use the darkest color jugs available .
Store race fuel containers on wooden planks , never on concrete , asphalt , or the ground . The containers have to be insulated to avoid sweating internally .
Do not keep race fuel inside of hot buildings or enclosed race trailers . The same goes for the race fuel in the race car .
And no matter how fresh the race fuel , don't be in a hurry to suck up the very last drop from any container . Any moisture or contaminants ( and there are ALWAYS some ) settle to the bottom .

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Mike Croley
Master Dist. for Renegade Racing Fuels
www.renegadepro1.com


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 Post subject: Re: Race Gas
 Post Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Location: Maryland
Thanks Mike, I'm doing everything wrong. I have 4 points for clarification.
1. I asked a local Cam2 dealer about the plastic container no-no, because he sold fuel in large plastic drums. He claimed they came directly from Sunoco and that fact was proof that the plastic drum no-no was untrue.

2. Do you know the temperature range for storing fuel? Mine sits in a garage that has no temperature control so my fuel sees 10 to 90 F.

3. Does Sta-bil help preserve race fuel?

4. If the fuel storage is not in direct sunlight, does the container need to be dark?


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 Post subject: Re: Race Gas
 Post Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:34 am 
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Ron Gusack wrote:
Thanks Mike, I'm doing everything wrong. I have 4 points for clarification.
1. I asked a local Cam2 dealer about the plastic container no-no, because he sold fuel in large plastic drums. He claimed they came directly from Sunoco and that fact was proof that the plastic drum no-no was untrue.

2. Do you know the temperature range for storing fuel? Mine sits in a garage that has no temperature control so my fuel sees 10 to 90 F.

3. Does Sta-bil help preserve race fuel?

4. If the fuel storage is not in direct sunlight, does the container need to be dark?


1. The plastic totes cost less than metal drums .

2. Race gas should be kept at 75 or 80 . The big swings from cool to very hot are what causes problems .

3. Race gas properly stored really doesn't need any preservative . Also , anything you add to the fuel is diluting it and that's not a good thing .

4. Even when race fuel isn't stored in direct sunlight , the darkest jugs are still a good idea . The lead in race gas is VERY sensitive to sunlight .

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Mike Croley
Master Dist. for Renegade Racing Fuels
www.renegadepro1.com


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 Post subject: Re: Race Gas
 Post Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 9:54 am 
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Sorry for the hijack, but if you have about 9.5 compression and a decent cam, running on 91 octane. Would I see any difference in performance with race gas without turning up my initial timing, or would I have to crank up the timing to take advantage of the increased octane?

Just primer


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 Post subject: Re: Race Gas
 Post Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Location: Auburndale, Florida
Not sure about your car running better with race gas in your application. it might but, I don't think so. Not enough to justify the expense.

I have a 10.2 motor I run on 93 octane. It runs fine the way it is. I just buy whatever comes out of the Sunoco pump and run it. It just runs the same number over and over.

However, rather that have someone tell me things are only a certain way I intend to test the diffrence later this year. My plan is to run 93 octane, drain the system, run 110 octane, drain the system and run 100LL avgas. I'll post the results.

I'm not betting on any or much difference between the three.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Gas
 Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:22 am 
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nomad wrote:
Not sure about your car running better with race gas in your application. it might but, I don't think so. Not enough to justify the expense.

I have a 10.2 motor I run on 93 octane. It runs fine the way it is. I just buy whatever comes out of the Sunoco pump and run it. It just runs the same number over and over.

However, rather that have someone tell me things are only a certain way I intend to test the diffrence later this year. My plan is to run 93 octane, drain the system, run 110 octane, drain the system and run 100LL avgas. I'll post the results.

I'm not betting on any or much difference between the three.

It may not make any difference if the tune is optimal for the pump gas, but the optimal tune for race gas might yield more power, right? Stoich for one will be different than the other.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Gas
 Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:25 pm 
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Racing gasoline is blended to accomplish a lot of things , some of which are easy to see on the dyno , some can really only be seen on the track . The number one reason to use race gas is octane .Higher octane resists detonation and the major engine damage it causes . A higher octane won't make any additional power unless the engine needed higher octane . But more octane will allow you to increase timing , increase compression , add or increase forced induction , add nitrous . In short , more octane allows you to make more power .
Race gas has hundreds of components blended in to increase octane , increase torque , increase throttle response , even increase or decrease weight .
In a low compression , normally aspirated application , you won't see any increase at all by switching from street gas to race gas . The one reason to use race gas in such a combination would be to avoid detonation from high engine temps . I know of a lot of street stocks that use 110 race gas so that when the grill gets caved in on the opening lap they can continue to race even with the engine temps going way up . The extra octane gives them a cushion .

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Mike Croley
Master Dist. for Renegade Racing Fuels
www.renegadepro1.com


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 Post subject: Re: Race Gas
 Post Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Kind of what I was thinking. I had a problem with detonation in my last engine so I am nervous about changing my timing at all. I am sure I could go a few points higher with race gas and even have the slight sensation of a quicker response, but I may not actually be any faster.

Just primer


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