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 Post Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:42 pm 
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on my Firebird when running Methanol I used a front mounted fuel cell. Now that I am changing back to gasoline will my belt drive pump support rear mounted cell? This is a 408 SBC running 6.15 1/8 mile [APD pump & bypass/return line style regulator]

My reason being looking at removing some weight off the front.
Thank You

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 Post Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:54 pm 
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Belt drive pumps and rear fuel cells present some problems when 60ft times get below 1.30 or so due to G forces stalling fuel in the suction line. I ran a BLP internal bypass belt drive on the Studebaker with a rear mounted fuel cell but short times on that car were in the 1.40s. I'd call APD and ask them before I switched the cell to the rear.

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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:50 am 
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for future reference Joe at ADP says a rear mounted cell with the APD belt drive fuel pump is fine up to low 9 second 1/4 mile performance. Faster than low 9's you are into the range were G forces stall the fuel in the line and the pump suction may lag behind at the launch.

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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:18 am 
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Larry Woodfin wrote:
for future reference Joe at ADP says a rear mounted cell with the APD belt drive fuel pump is fine up to low 9 second 1/4 mile performance. Faster than low 9's you are into the range were G forces stall the fuel in the line and the pump suction may lag behind at the launch.


Info I got was from BLP when I bought that belt drive pump from them. They seemed to be more concerned with the short time than the overall ET. I wonder what short time usually goes with a "low 9" second pass? :-k Studebaker ran 10.0s @ around 135 and was a good ways off that 1.30 short time limit. :-k

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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:38 am 
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I am getting ready to do the exact same thing on my car. I have heard hit and miss stories on people getting it to work with no problems vs people having issues. The ones that are not having issues seem to have one thing in common. They have a section of the fuel line run in front of the pump. What I plan to do is run the fuel line up through the right side frame rail. Run it across under the radiator support and back to the fuel pump. That way there is a volume of fuel ahead of the pump that should be enough to keep a constant fuel supply. I was also thinking of putting the fuel filter right by the pump. I have one of those large peterson filters, so that will add a little more volume of fuel. We shall see what happens. Plan to get the pump on there next week. I have a buddy of my with a 5.80 camaro and I am going to pretty much model his setup on how my line is run. He doesn't have any issues.

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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:14 pm 
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I think the "fuel line accumulator" is a good idea. Three feet of #8 hose ahead of the pump would be plenty to get you 60' - 70' or so off the line. By that time the system will have recovered.

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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:28 am 
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are you saying that the pump will use the "accumulator fuel" until g-forces diminish? wont that create a void in the line?or create a much higher depression that the pump has to work against?
I am just asking as i have a rear mount cell and belt pump also but I have yet to go fast with it,but i have wondered about fuel starvation also,when i built my system i made the fuel lines leave out the bottom rear of the cell so,as i see it,g-forces will hopefully help me as the car launches the fuel is pushed rearward with g-forces to help overcome fuel pump starvation....maybe that is just hillbilly engineering =;


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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Larry Woodfin wrote:
I think the "fuel line accumulator" is a good idea. Three feet of #8 hose ahead of the pump would be plenty to get you 60' - 70' or so off the line. By that time the system will have recovered.


Something to keep in mind here, those same G forces that try to pull fuel away from the pump inlet will do the exact opposite when the line comes from in front! I've seen fuel pressure spikes in my system from as little as 18" of straight fuel line run in the direction of car travel on the carb side of the regulator. In fact, this is the only problem I've ever seen with that internal bypass BLP pump I run and it was what lead me to running a regulator to begin with. Before this problem manifest itself I had run that pump without a pressure regulator and used the bypass valve to set max pressure.

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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:28 pm 
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I have always heard those internal bypass pumps are prone to pressure spikes and they are more sensitive to getting the right size pump on there. Plus I don't like the fact that when the pump is bypassing fuel, it isn't moving fuel through the lines where with the external bypass and return, the fuel is always moving through the line thus in my mind it would have some momentum moving forward before the g-force hits.

In my mind having that accumulator volume of fuel with make it easier on the pump and will definitely offset some of the g-forces.

My buddy said with his electrical pump he would see the fuel pressure bounce around on launch. With the belt driven pump it was rock steady.

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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:57 pm 
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I ran the BLP internal pypass pump at first but did not like it, the pressure was always moving. I installed the BLP sleeve that blocks off the return and installed a return style regulator. Much better, idles about 2.5 - 3 pounds and will hold steady at whatever number you set the top end pressure.

Also, driving slowly in the pit and return road is nice and clean.

In my experience, the belt drive pump with bypass regulator is a superior performing package to an electric pump set up.

My Firebird is down for larger wheel tubs so I will move the cell to the rear while upgrading the tires.

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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:06 am 
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Still brain storming about this rear mounted cell project. Instead of plumbing a return hose from the regulator to the rear mounted cell how about returning the fuel in the suction line near the pump? Just thinking about saving about 12 feet of hose. Plus, there might be a benefit to having the return fuel near the pump.

Let me here your thoughts.

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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:33 am 
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It ought to warm the fuel up nicely. =;

I don't know if that would be a big concern with methanol, but I think it would be with gas.

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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:04 pm 
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I would think you would lose some of the benefits of having the return style like keeping the fuel moving at all times. It easier to accelerate the fuel through the line when its already moving vs having the fuel sitting and having to accelerate it all. I could see the system being more prone to lagging like that.

Don't see why it wouldn't work, but I don't think it would be optimal.

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 Post Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:04 am 
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i would think that may cause unwanted turbulance in the suction line,and as fourten said it would be better to keep the fuel moving, because its own inertia will help it overcome g-force....my .02


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 Post Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Well I got mine in and everything plumbed up, It was pretty easy to bleed, just jacked the back of the car up and cracked the line at the pump, it was flowing pretty quick. Still need to adjust the idle pressure, shows about 5.5 psi at idle, so I need to increase the size of the bleed and its vabout 7.6 off the rev limitor. Pretty cool how the pressure reacts to engine rpm.

Tomorrow I plan to jack the front up as high as I can get it to see if there is any sign of a delivery problem. I will be running the car next weekend, we shall see what happens.

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