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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:25 pm 
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Quote:
before I'd spring for a pair of $50 needle seats



Not the ones I just bought. O:)
2 were not that much.


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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Scott Smith wrote:
Quote:
before I'd spring for a pair of $50 needle seats



Not the ones I just bought. O:)
2 were not that much.


OK, so what did they cost you, and what advantage did you see from using them?? I'll take you word and issue a retraction if I was wrong! And don't tell me you just used smaller jets to get the same performance without any REDUCTION in fuel used? What I'm afraid of is that ppl will buy these thinking they are some "magic" bullet only to find that they use the same amount of fuel making the same power and running the same times!

Enlighten me Scott because I value YOUR opinion!!! ;-)

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:43 am 
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I have not installed them yet. I got them a couple of weeks ago and I'm waiting for Mark to send me some other stuff.

I got bottom feed 150s

They are 14.50 each.

http://blp.com/cart/index.php?main_page ... cts_id=578


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 Post subject: New Holley N&S Design
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:40 am 
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Ken0069 wrote:
Yeah this all "looks good" in a post but before I'd spring for a pair of $50 needle seats, I'd have to see these kind of graphs/results on a "Joe Average" door car running 6.50s in the eight mile! Sorry, but I'm not one of those that will "go off" on fishing expeditions on something that is "new". No offense Mike! But then again, I'm a pessimist and I'm always one to figure why it WON'T work before I put down money!

FYI, Bill Jones, whom I respect a lot (speed talk and Bonneville fame) posted some stuff years ago about fuel pressure and the HP that it would support with a single STOCK .110 Holley needle seat. He says that a single Holley needle seat will support like 350 HP at only 3psig. Iff'in you got two or those in a 4 barrel carb, then you could support 700 HP @ that same 3 pisg! And Bill also says a SINGLE .110 needle seat will support 600 hp at 6 psig and that means that a 4 barrel like a Dominator will support 1200 HP at that same 6 psig! And if you run dual carbs, you could support 2400 HP at that same 6 psig. So where does that put us with stock Holley .110 needle seats @ 4 psig?


Ken:

You're right - this setup will not be needed for cars with lower power. It's all relative. The purpose of this project is to eliminate aeration of the fuel while maintaining proper control of the level in the bowl(s) so as not to uncover a jet and/or bleed over into a booster passage. There are other minimal concerns as well. We are building single carburetors that flow more than 2300 cfm of air for 700+ cubic inch engines. These engines typically use 2-4bbls or 4-2bbls. In both cases; there are 4 n/s, 4 float bowls, 8 fuel jets, etc. With our big carburetors, fuel supply ability is cut in half while air supply is close to the same as the multiple carbs which means that fuel control becomes very important. When we started testing the big carburetors; video revealed the aeration issue (also something that we've long suspected with methanol at nearly twice the fuel consumption of gas). Fuel aeration should always be avoided for obvious reasons. With less power; less fuel demand is needed, which means smaller n/s, jets, etc.

Our goal(s) with this project include having the ability to properly supply at least 1800 hp on gas and 1500 hp on methanol with 2 n/s and 4 main jets.

Mike


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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:52 am 
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OOPS............. I'd like to apologize to Mike and the rest of the members here for that post I made last night. I had a couple of "beverages" after dinner and then like a dumb ass got on the keyboard when I should have just read and typed nothing! The language and tone were a bit over the top and I'm sorry I even wrote it. I did edit it so it looks a little better now

Ken

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:16 am 
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Scott Smith wrote:
I have not installed them yet. I got them a couple of weeks ago and I'm waiting for Mark to send me some other stuff.

I got bottom feed 150s

They are 14.50 each.

http://blp.com/cart/index.php?main_page ... cts_id=578


Scott, Mike can correct me if I'm wrong here but it's my understanding that these N&S are ones they are testing and not avaiable yet? :-k

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:05 pm 
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No, they are not yet available. The design will require a modified or even new float bowl and a different float as well. You can currently get a .140 double window or .150 bottom feed in a viton tipped, and up to .170 in a Titanium. The new one is significantly larger, and while the average bracket car on gas won't benefit there may be an advantage on an engine running methanol with a large carb. Just like the discussions we've had here on being able to pass sufficient fuel through the boosters on a Methanol Dominator the same applies to the N&S. Most have used a belt drive pump to drive the pressure up to keep the bowls full. The new N&S will allow the pressure to be dropped, lowering foaming in the bowl, lowering the jet needed and making it easier to pass enough fuel through the boosters, making fuel delivery more consistent....


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 Post subject: New Holley N&S Design
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:39 pm 
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Ken0069 wrote:
OOPS............. I'd like to apologize to Mike and the rest of the members here for that post I made last night. I had a couple of "beverages" after dinner and then like a dumb a&& got on the keyboard when I should have just read and typed nothing! The language and tone were a bit over the top and I'm sorry I even wrote it. I did edit it so it looks a little better now

Ken


No problem - maybe next time I'll join you!


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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:01 pm 
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New on track videos. First part is a .150 N&S at I believe around 5.5 psi, the second part is the new design and low pressure, a 6.90's pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-q1eJu1Wz8&context=C4b79d29ADvjVQa1PpcFNCCaoqn_GOszk3Uj9b1f4ko9UfKYLBMN0=


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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:08 pm 
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Mark, These are really cool, but why a primary and then a secondary?


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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:45 pm 
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They did both, that was just the two they copied for me to post. I have seen both primary and secondary videos and they have similar results.


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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:50 am 
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Ok I need a set.... =;

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:15 am 
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Wow there is a lot of stuff going on in that bowl. O:)


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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:18 am 
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Scott Smith wrote:
Wow there is a lot of stuff going on in that bowl. O:)


You've got that right Scott!


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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:31 am 
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Scott Smith wrote:
Wow there is a lot of stuff going on in that bowl. O:)


Yeah, I was thinking that same thing!! I mean we knew that G force probably was doing some funky stuff with fuel levels but...............................

That's the reason I never place too much faith in AFRs until after the gear change. And you have to wonder how much of a performance advantage it would be if that fuel level could be stabilized? This might be another reason for running fuel in injection too. :-k

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