Motorsports Village
http://motorsportsvillage.com/forum/

1150 Methanol Conversion
http://motorsportsvillage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8021
Page 1 of 3

Author:  Ken0069 [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  1150 Methanol Conversion

I've decided to do some radical stuff with this 9377 carb I got. Mark Slayton did an E85 conversion with his but I'm going to go off the deep end with a methanol conversion with some extreme mods to try to remedy the fuel starvation issue I had with that other 1150 I have. Don't know if you remember, but I added another circuit up in the booster area to that carb trying to add fuel to that one, which ran lean @ 1350 degrees BTW. That other carb seems to work fine now but you know how it is. If it ain't broke, you can still probably fix it!!!!! ;-) BECAUSE I CAN!!!

Ordered an extra booster and banjo to work with and will also buy another set of metering blocks to "machine on" to add more fuel to those boosters. BLP shipped the boosters/banjos yesterday so I should have them by weeks end. Already have new butterflies from BPTcarbs and also some other small parts that I needed.

Reason I posted this here is that I want to do a running conversion deal like jmark and the rest of you are doing with the E85 carbie thingie and who knows, maybe some of the stuff I'm going to try just "might" be something you guys may want to look at also since these fuels are "similar"!!

Oh yes, and I do love messing with this stuff and since I'm retired I got more time to do that than you guys!! \:D/

Ennywho, instead of starting yet another "hidden" forum with no one in it but me, I just decided to join in with you guys and see what shakes out on the other end!!

Author:  shrinker [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

Do you have AFR data for the 1150 on methanol or are you saying it went lean because the EGT was higher than what you wanted?

Author:  jmarkaudio [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

Sounds good! Since you have all this time.... :-$

Author:  mslayton [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

Thanks Ken. It will be interesting to see how you test mods work out. I'm anxious to get mine out and see how the conversion works. Waiting until at least late April is going to kill me!!

Author:  Ken0069 [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

Ok, so how does this look? And before anyone jumps on the "fall into the engine" deal, that small hole in the booster along with a similar hole in that cap screw will have SS safety wire in it that will be tied off to the top of the main body. That way if it comes loose the wire will keep it out of the butterflies and engine.

Image

This is a lot of hand work as these boosters are the 34-36 boosters that I had that were already drilled out to .234. I machined part of this one off and took the rest off with a "West Virginia" milling machine, aka, flat file and 320 grit paper.

Author:  mslayton [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

You have been busy!

I'm thinking through what you're hoping to gain with that mod and I' m not sure I'm following. Presumable removing the other leg of the banjo will allow greater airflow outside the booster but does that allow you to gain anything towards your goal of getting the correct amount fuel through the carb? Wouldn't it hurt the issue by pulling less through the center of the booster?

Mark

Author:  Ken0069 [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

I mainly did this "because I can", well, it's something I've wondered about for a long time. It could possibly contribute a bit to the "WOW" factor when the hood is off, kinda like the guys at a local track two years ago when they looked down my other Dominator and saw zip ties in the boosters. It really freaked them out when I cut one of'em out and threw it on the ground. Head games Mark, for the uninformed. ;-)

Yeah it will increase air flow a "tick". Not sure that it will have any effect on the air down the center of the booster since it can only flow so much to begin with. Removing that outer leg may or may not help fuel distribution since the corners are what usually run lean? That's another of those "we'll see" deals I guess.

I've worked this so that anything done can easily be "undone" in the event things go south. If it doesn't make it with methanol it will probably be redone for gas.

Next item is a set of metering blocks. Donee was going to see if he could get me a pair from the guy he got his from down in Texas but he hasn't said anything about it in a week or more. I guess I need to call him and remind him again. May call BLP and see what the mainwell and crosswells are on their billet methanol blocks. If they are close to .230 or so at the crosswell they might work but I doubt they are that large.

Author:  mslayton [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

Makes sense. Nothing like a little WOW factor when the hoods off! \:D/

Author:  Ken0069 [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

Here is a pic with all 4 boosters bolted in. Next will be the hard part when I have to drill an .035 safety wire hole in that SS cap screw!

Image

Plan is to seal these off with urethane paint since I'm not going to use a stake tube in'em. Urethane is one of the few things that methanol won't hork up! That way that passage will be .234 from the body to the booster. Will use some brass tubing to make a flare adapter to fit in the inlet where the metering block fits against it. May try to drill out some regular stake tubes and use what's left to do that. Either way, one of the two will work.

I'll use epoxy to fill the opposite unused leg seat then paint that over with urethane to seal it. Don't think that the urethane is really necessary as fuel isn't likely to be in that area but will do it just the same.

And what I really need to be doing is finishing that gas porting tool I'm making so I can start to put my short block together. O:)

Author:  Ken0069 [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

Finally found the carb list number and part number for the metering blocks that I want. Seems that they came on an 80498 950 Holley methanol carb and the part number for the blocks is HLY-34R-11862MB. Sent an Email via Holley's tech page looking for a supplier for these blocks. If these can be found at the right price, they might be an alternative for an E85 carbie as the 950 carbie comes with .144 jets and the main wells and cross wells are a good bit larger than that. With jmark finding that he needs more and more fuel, this could wind up being somewhere near a methanol deal in the end. :-k

Author:  mslayton [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

Let us know how you make out on a supplier. Those might be an alternative if available at the right price. Do you know if the jet thread is standard holley or the larger size alcohol version?

Worst case I guess we'll just end up tweaking billet blocks to the correct spec's. BLP does sell a billet block they call an E85 block and they lost they in the same section as the alcohol blocks.

Author:  jmarkaudio [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

It will be a price issue I imagine, since Holley does not sell many the price is higher. I know Mark Sullens uses the Pro Comp blocks and modifies them to his liking and they are cheap. Also saw some interesting booster inserts last time down at BLP, similar to the picture below I painted to look like them. They had two rows of holes all the way around staggered, top row just under the step on the inside. Possibly a candidate for Alcohol, and a mod you could do to stock boosters to get more fuel through.



Image

Author:  Ken0069 [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

mslayton wrote:
Let us know how you make out on a supplier. Those might be an alternative if available at the right price. Do you know if the jet thread is standard holley or the larger size alcohol version?

Worst case I guess we'll just end up tweaking billet blocks to the correct spec's. BLP does sell a billet block they call an E85 block and they lost they in the same section as the alcohol blocks.


Mark those blocks are 5/16x32 thread, which is the large one. Mine has those which is another reason I was trying to find a source for them.

RE: More holes in the boosters? Not sure about that as there's only so much signal available and if the fuel channels are small then more holes might be moot point. Also remembering that Mark S figured that you needed 40% more area in the booster holes than in the banjo feed hole. That's something I'm working on with this alky carb but I'm not sure that the 40% number is what it actually will want for methanol since the fuel requirement is 2.3 times greater. I've got 12 holes that are .081 as there was no .080 drill available.

Author:  jmarkaudio [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

I think the above booster would be good for methanol, no chance for a restriction, as long as your other passages are big enough. I do think BLP resorts to the wide body 3 circuit block with methanol on a Dominator, easy to add fuel to the intermediate circuit and no idle feed tube restriction. One of the guys there that built an E85 carb for his brother-in-law used the wide body 3 circuit blocks. I would prefer to use a 2 circuit as long as it will pass enough fuel and maintain a high enough signal to pull the fuel, make it leave at the booster where airspeed is highest.

Author:  Ken0069 [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Meth/Ethanol Related Conversion

Ordered those methanol metering blocks from Holley today for this 1150. They had them instock and shipped they were $160 a pair, which isn't too bad I guess considering where they came from.

I've got a preliminary external linkage deal done and will finish that in the not too distant future so some things are falling into place.

jmark, do you have any info on what the compound angle is on the crosswells on a Holley metering block? I've got to do some machining in that area and I'd like to know those angles to make it a little easier to setup.

Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/