Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » Racing Forum » Fuel Systems




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 51
I'm thinking about having my carb converted to alcohol. I've never used it or personally know anyone who has. Anyone want to try to explain the do's & don'ts and what routine is required to make it work without problems. I'm talking to a well respected builder about doing the conversion. What kind of maintenance is required if using a properly set-up carb? This will be a 1050 fed by an electric pump if it makes any difference.

_________________
84 Regal
3300 lbs
482" BBC
1.35 60'
6.30/107.5
9.98/132.5


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:25 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:38 am
Posts: 11804
Location: Coming At Ya!
This would probably be best done on a land line real time. I'll PM you a number and we can talk if you want.

_________________
Big Boyz Toyz!

Image

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:57 pm
Posts: 708
Since this question has been asked more than once.IMO this would make a great topic on what works for whom and why .. \:D/ ....I was told my Aeromotive Electric Pump (becasue it was alcohol compatible) would work only to be told it wouldn't later by the same person@(Aeromotive).. O:)

So.I ask this.Who runs what(carb or injection),what pump,pressure,return line or not,lean out set up?,how do you maintain YOUR setup?(drain it everyweekend),..AS I and alot of others treading into the Conversion would like the Easiest setup and maintance to begin with and to later tinker n Tune for better performance...Whatcha think.. =;
Case n point....Friend runs a rupert carb,areomotive A2000 pump,aeromotive reg.,no return from carb,psi @ 6.5 start to finish.Doesnt drain his fuel unless it sets for at least a month or 2(which is very rare). And the car perfoms well.Now,Is this a good setup?Seems to work,Is
It at its at optimal performance?.Prob not I think...No EGT setup,Rupert did the work and it was bolted on with only an idle adjustment since...
Lets here your thoughts... \:D/

_________________
Image

THE ATOMIC BANEGA(BANANA/VEGA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BagEEa8JDo


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:06 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:38 am
Posts: 11804
Location: Coming At Ya!
JEEZ!! Regal and I spent an hour and a half on the phone last night talking about this stuff! I guess we need to make this a "sticky" so it won't have to be posted over and over and over and over again! There's already a ton of s**t on here about this but unfortunately it's not in "sticky" format. So here we go again!!

Right now I'm working on the Studebaker engine but I'll put some stuff up later.

_________________
Big Boyz Toyz!

Image

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:57 pm
Posts: 708
Ken0069 wrote:
JEEZ!! Regal and I spent an hour and a half on the phone last night talking about this stuff! I guess we need to make this a "sticky" so it won't have to be posted over and over and over and over again! There's already a ton of s**t on here about this but unfortunately it's not in "sticky" format. So here we go again!!

Right now I'm working on the Studebaker engine but I'll put some stuff up later.


Pm me your number..... =; =;

_________________
Image

THE ATOMIC BANEGA(BANANA/VEGA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BagEEa8JDo


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:57 pm
Posts: 708
Could also just post a few links in this thread from previous threads containing good subject material.. \:D/

_________________
Image

THE ATOMIC BANEGA(BANANA/VEGA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BagEEa8JDo


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:14 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Benton, KY
I have ran both carb and injection.

I use a belt drive pump with both. With the carb I used a quick fuel adjustable bypass that uses a holley jet for a "pill" to control the idle pressure and has an adjustable diaphragm to set the wide open pressure .

I like the injection better hands down, a lot easier to tune and deal with imo. I do not drain my system unless its going to set a month or so. When I use m-5 , I drain it immediately after the race and fill with regular methanol.

My 1150 quick fuel carb is for sale btw =;


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:00 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:38 am
Posts: 11804
Location: Coming At Ya!
ky mustang wrote:
I have ran both carb and injection.
I like the injection better hands down


I've run both on a 482 BBC in that first digger I had. Enderle hat to start with and the two Rupert 750s that I'm now having problems with? The Enderlie ran 5.26 @ 130 in that dragster and a week later it ran .2 quicker and 7 MPH faster than the injection with those Rupert carbs that I've now found out might be horked up??? I ran them Friday night and only put 2 quarts of fuel thru them trailer to trailer. On the digger, it went 7.96 @ 168 on less than a gallon on those same two Rupert 750 carbs?

I'm open to another injection "trial" though. Just haven't found anyone that will donate a system to test with on my 18* SBC? O:)

_________________
Big Boyz Toyz!

Image

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:14 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Benton, KY
Did you use a high speed lean out with the hat ? I do believe they help even in a 1/8 mile.

There are so many variables you have got to compare everything . One thing I think that could have an effect is the resonance tuning of the manifold its self , there is no way a wide open hat / or injection unit could act the same as a carb would when a pulse wave hits the door backwards. I mean the supposed "key " is to have the wave headed towards the valve when it opens ,

I know you don't have to worry about the fuel suspension as much with injection , but still if the air is headed backwards when the valve opens you will more than likely get an over rich mixture with injection. You can correct the fuel mixture better with injection by changing to a smaller nozzle , but its still a compromise if the cylinder could take in more air and fuel.

When we dynoed my engine last spring we tested an experimental prototype single intake manifold for trick flo against an edelbrock Victor manifold. We tested the manifold on 2 different engines and it produced 18 more hp on one engine and 16 on the other so it was pretty consistent. These tests were done with a carb and since then Trickflo done a pre production run and made 13 manifolds I believe. I will test one of them next weekend to see if the on track results show an improvement.

Us ford guys do not have the luxury of having the manifold selection you chevy guys do with conventional heads , there has not been a new tunnel ram on the market in a while for a conventional big block ford and the ones out there are not that great. We can produce competitive hp #'s but at a lower peak rpm so what what we are wanting to do is raise the rpm peak and we really think it is in the manifold resonance tuning.

The victor manifold issue seems to hurt carbs performance more than it does injection from on track results. The manifold you were using could be exactly opposite. It just something to think about you probably can't have a manifold that is optimized for both injection and carbs . I know you are open minded about it Ken and that's the way every racer needs to be. You can't just say one is better than the other without weighing out everything you are using , and then there will be a reason one performs better than the other , you just need to try and make your combination work best with what you got.

I do feel that when you get into the bigger carbs and duals there is going to be a certain point when low carb signal is not going to be able to deliver the fuel volume needed and injection will out perform them with methanol.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:55 am
Posts: 26
Location: Illinois
Ken0069 wrote:


I'm open to another injection "trial" though. Just haven't found anyone that will donate a system to test with on my 18* SBC? O:)


You may have a hard time finding a deal like that. Why not just buy a terminator or toilet system from KillerRons? Between James' and I's experience with this type of engine and alky injection I'm sure you wouldn't be dissapointed with the performance and consistency/predictability. Properly tuned and operated a single terminator or toilet will not milk the oil and will be at least as quick as dual carbs. Injection by nature will use more fuel than a carb though. A primer plus system will greatly reduce the alky fuel consumption.

_________________
Scott

2007 & 2009 Gateway S/Pro Champion
Image
420 SBC 1.085, 4.85@140.5, 7.67@172.7
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:40 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:38 am
Posts: 11804
Location: Coming At Ya!
Hummm, dunno on the consistency thingie as I made 4 passes Friday night on a little less than 3 gallons of fuel at a test and tune and all of those passes were 5.61s. Short times were 1.199, 1.200, 1.200 and 1.200 on my Rupert 750s. O:) Think I'm gonna leave it alone for a while. \:D/

Like I said, the only way I'd fool with an injection system would be one that was donated so it not likely to ever happen. I got too much money in methanol carburetors to go spending more on something I'm not sure will work. ;-)

_________________
Big Boyz Toyz!

Image

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:55 am
Posts: 26
Location: Illinois
That could be three 5.55's in a row on injection. \:D/

I seen in one of your other posts where you were pointing out that it is expensive to tune the dual carbs and there is twice as much things to go wrong. Well with injection you don't have any of those concerns. =; Sorry, I couldn't resist.

_________________
Scott

2007 & 2009 Gateway S/Pro Champion
Image
420 SBC 1.085, 4.85@140.5, 7.67@172.7
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:52 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:38 am
Posts: 11804
Location: Coming At Ya!
Yeah, go ahead and rub it in! I will return the favor if the opportunity arises! ;-)

I've got an 1150 Dominator that is close to these two 750s both in performance and consistency. The reason I switched to the tunnel ram was because I was thinking the dual carbs would be easier to get right because each cylinder has it's own venturi. I was right for the most part but it turned out that I can run way less jet on this engine than I did on the 23* engine?? Nah, haven't figured that part out yet? I always ran .172s in those carbs on the 23* engine and I'm now all the way down to .156s on most cylinders and 4 of those are showing EGTs that say I can go even lower, hence the jet changes to smaller jets that I didn't anticipate. I do believe that I can go to mid .140 on 1, 3, 5, 7 as those are all in the low to mid 1100s temp wise.

For next year I'm looking to go back to the single carb deal with a new intake that is better matched to my engine.

Oh, and did I mention that I sometimes run GAS on this same setup in early spring and late fall? Only thing I change is the carburetors, timing, plugs and fuel. ;-)

_________________
Big Boyz Toyz!

Image

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:55 am
Posts: 26
Location: Illinois
I'm just razzing you because you appear to be so anti injection.

Are you sure it is the jetting causing the exhaust temps to be different cylinder to cylinder? Thinks like distributer phasing cylinder to cylinder, ignition timing cylinder to cylinder, cam differences cylinder to cylinder, lash differences cylinder to cylinder, etc can cause the egt's to be different.

_________________
Scott

2007 & 2009 Gateway S/Pro Champion
Image
420 SBC 1.085, 4.85@140.5, 7.67@172.7
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:22 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:38 am
Posts: 11804
Location: Coming At Ya!
Well yeah, I am "anti-injection" and have been since I got rid of that Enderle setup that was on that 482 BBC I sold. That's also the reason I wouldn't pay money for one. ;-) Besides, if I didn't have these carburetors to tinker with, what would I do? =;

_________________
Big Boyz Toyz!

Image

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index » Racing Forum » Fuel Systems


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: