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 Post subject: Torque or Horsepower???
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:07 am 
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Ok guys, I've been thinking(very dangerous area [-( ) about a 540 inch big block chevy and I was wondering if there is any data out there that reflects which would be a better combo.

We all know that a 540 from a Dart or Brodix or World Products block can be done with ease, and the stroke is usually kept to 4.500 and the bores are 4.500 but what about a block that is NOT an aftermarket block, and has a smaller bore and, a larger stroke but still manages to reach a 540 inch size? Say a GM tall deck block can be punched out to 4.375 and have a 4.500 stroke crank dropped into it with clearances all done up, could it make as much Torque or Power as the newer conventional 540's with the above mentioned dimensions? I would think that the smaller bore would kill it for max power vs the larger bore, but for a heavy chassis like mine, would a more stroked engine be better by having say 14-15:1 comp. to get the heavy pig going?

Everything would be balanced of course, and premium parts would be used in the bottom end for sure. And what sized heads would be the best choice? a set of 345cfm flowing heads, or a larger set flowing in the 360cfm range?, out of the box numbers of course!

I know Beretta's 540 make's some great power, but I have this brand new GM Truck Tall Deck block with unfinished bores and 4 bolt mains that is a candidate for a larger cubic inch engine, and if the core shift is real minimal, this bore of 4.375 is about max for it and so is the crank stroke, so what do you guys think, is it worth building this style 540 or try to get another block to get the larger bore and keep the 4.500 stroke? I'm just curious as to how much power & torque the larger stroke smaller bore would actually be able to get!

Thoughts :-k :-k :-k

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:20 pm 
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IMHO you'd be better off to sell that and get a 4.5 bore block. I think the better breathing from the larger bore would be a more effective use of available dollars. My opinion only, you understand.


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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:37 pm 
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John,

The smaller bore will kill alot of the head flow by shrouding the valves. Having said that however, if your heads are done for the smaller bore, you still won't be at a loss. I'm all about cubes. The more the better. I'd half fill your block then take it to the max allowable bore. Does your block have the main oil galley in the pan rail, or is it near the cam tunnel? If it's in the pan rail, I don't think that it will allow that much stroke without hitting the oil galley when it's clearanced for the crank. I could just give you my Merlin Pro block and you could bore it to 4.625 and throw a 4.75 crank in it for a 632..............But I won't........ [-(

Either way you look at it, with a good set of heads done for the smaller bore and the right cam, a bigger inch combo would be worth it IMHO. I'd look around at the heads that are out there, and maybe give Curtis a call as well. You'd have a pretty nasty motor that would push your lead sled right down the 1/4 (or 1/8th) mile at a pretty good clip. Keep the quench on the loose side and spray the hell out of it for even more fun!

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:18 am 
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Yeah, the killer part of a small bore vs big power, well, I will just have to sell my new block and be on the lookout later on for a new tall deck block. Thanks guys for you rinfo. and input. \:D/

John

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:01 pm 
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Call Cobra Power in Miami for a Dart block. That's where I got mine. Prices were good and shipping reasonable.

I however, drove there and back in one day to get mine. It was an adventure. They had pallets of the darn things.

PS. My 540 on 93 octane kicks butt.


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:53 pm 
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John, You can also check into a GM Bowtie block. There all finished except for a final hone..

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:41 pm 
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Beretta wrote:
John, You can also check into a GM Bowtie block. There all finished except for a final hone..


Barry, there is a new Bowtie on another site and it is a great price, too bad the funds are not here to hold it for a while until I am ready to build it =P~ such is life. Thanks Barry.

Thanks also nomad. :-$

John

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:49 pm 
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To everybody, Beware of the GM new blocks. Some are made in China and they are JUNK JUNK JUNK. Just had experiences from 2 people here who purchased Race CNC bowtie blocks Genuine GM ones and nothing fits, the caps dont fit correctly there are incorrect parts, the cast iron doesnt machine properly, the cam doesnt align, there is core shift in all sorts of places--- in short, they are JUNK. We have an old 2007 race CNC bowtie block here that was used for comparison and its a great block, the Chinese ones are nothing compared to that US one. We have made extensive enquiries with GM and they tried to cover up the issues, they even told us that they didnt recognise the blocks we were being sent they didnt recognise the part numbers or the packaging. Who knows if they are counteriefts or not but they were imported to Oz from GM performance in the USA. Eventually GM admitted to us that they were making those blocks in China.
So take this information as you want.


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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:55 am 
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shrinker, How about some hard facts to what your saying. Have any part #s were they small blocks or big blocks. I got mine about a year ago and as far as I know there was no issue's with it. I did get all the machining spec's from it and the place that did the cnc work..I did choose the GM block because of all the machine work is done and I did get a smoking deal on it...
I have a buddy that works for GM so I will talk to him soon ;-)

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:42 pm 
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They were both small block race CNC bowtie blocks. You can look up the Gm web site for the part numbers. There is only one version available, Its a fully machined block. Old style SBC, normal heads, (not for the SB2 realigned lifters), stock deck height,steel caps fitted with stud kit, all caps 4 bolt. They have Siamese(I think), over half inch thick barrels, If you need the part number I will have to find that out from the owner. Edit, I think this is close to the one but its not the specified bore thickness we got. #24502503

We have one here that we got in 2007 and we imported 2 more just 2 months ago. Both the new ones were a different color cast iron, they both had core shift in the bores and around the welsh plugs, both of them had the engine numbers stamped with some numbers upside down (obviously by someone who doesnt know arabic numbers), neither of them were fitted with mains studs as per specification and when we fitted a set the mains caps moved out of alignment, the blocks didnt come with a sonic sheet as per specified. The packaging was a plastic bag instead of a grease proof paper, the block came in a cardboard box with part numbers on it different to what GM said it should be and they didnt know what the part numbers were for. They claimed they didnt recognise the part numbers. We had a small hole drilled in one of the blocks and the cast iron was soft to drill, we drilled a hole in the 2007 block and it was hard. The new blocks were a very much different color cast iron to the 2007 block. We built the engine put of the 2007 block and sent the other junk back.
BY chance I met a person in Sydney who's mate was trying to build a race engine from a recently purchased SBC Race CNC bowtie block and he was having all sorts of troubles with it, the bores were no good, core shift so that it didnt meet specified thickness minimums , the mains caps didnt align, the cam didnt position right, he was constantly sending it back and forth for re machining, in short he said it was junk and was about to give up on it.


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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:26 pm 
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Like i said, we dont know if some counterfeiters have crept into the system BUT all we do know is we got 2 more blocks sent over and they were both very suspicious with GM tech department at the factory telling us they didnt recognize them. We sent photos to them of the blocks and details of the blocks and that was their reply.


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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:05 am 
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Shrinker, I made a post over on "speed talk" some reply's...
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=24632

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:19 am 
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John,

I'd go with the Dart block, they are worth the money.

Don

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:06 pm 
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I know they are a good block Don, but racing and trying to save up $2100. to get one and get the machining done to it I want is so hard to reach with my little pay checks I get :-({|= If I sell my new tall deck block that would help, but I would have to be a reeeeeeally good boy for x-mas next year to get one =;

I am almost done doing what I had set out to do with my elky for a final et goal and chassis set up so maybe next year or the year after I can get that 565 or bigger started. \:D/ I kind of like Todd's 582 also :-$

John


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John,

I'd go with the Dart block, they are worth the money.

Don

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:08 am 
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GREAT NEWS, well, for me anyway ;-) I just checked my new block and a 4.500 bore is so doable it isn't funny, so, that being said, here comith the 540 =; \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ Look out Barry, I will be talkin with you soon about some details on your engine ;-)

John

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