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 Post subject: WE HAVE A WINNER FOLKS!
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:04 am 
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It's been a while for this one but it's a well deserved one I might add!

Check it out!

http://motorsportsvillage.com/winners.html


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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:21 am 
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Good job Steve & Jake! I think it was the lucky parking spot I saved for ya ;-)

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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:28 am 
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Way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got that win we were talking about \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ ;-)

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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Thanks Ken and Faye for the write up. \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

Chuck it was the first time we have parked there, so it must have been lucky. =;

Thanks Barry, finally.

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:38 am 
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Steve explain why the MAB changes?? You realize going from a 36 to a 34 you just made just about the whole run rich as that is why it slowed down..
Then going from the 34 to a 38 you just leaned it out a lot...

Most here should agree that once you find that the mab is doing what you want it never gets changed and a slight lean trailing off toward the end of the run is usually good for some MPH... I have run a 25 MAB my gas carb and a 26 in my E85 carb that I am tuning now..It will be more constant it you just find that sweet spot that is a little lean and it will run the # just about every run..Now that all depends on how jake stages/rpm on the starting line etc...
No bashing here just trying to help you out on how to keep it from bouncing around the ET so much...\

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:11 pm 
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No bashing taken. We got the carb just before elims at Joliet. Made 2 passes with no adjustments. Then spent one day the week after and made 6 runs before they closed the track. Mainly working to get the bog out of it. Changed squirters and some small jet changes. Ended up on the last run changing the MAB to fatten it up a little it was worse. All of this was in 28-3100 DA.

Got to the BG race and raised the MAB to 36. It still bogged so we dropped the jets 4 #'s front and back. It got better and ran a great number for the heat. Remember we were running 11.00 index. It ran 11.02 all out. I dropped 2 more #'s and it went way slow 11.13. Now we know where too lean is in the heat. We put the jets back to normal and dropped the bleeds to a 34 and added 2.5 gal of fuel cause the air got better. These were qaul rounds so we were looking for 11 flat. It ran 11.03. I shouldn't of added the gas #-o Any way took the fuel out and ran first round. Jake killed him on the tree and got out of it. The DA was 2212 with Temp 80 humid 78 water grains 125. ](*,) Next morning it was Temp 82 humid 73 water 124 I leaned the bleeds to 36 It ran 10.98 (6.969 1/8 mile) with the best 60' we have had all weekend by .013. lost by .004 red.

This past weekend was more of a test of the MAB in good weather. First round same set up as BG air was 87/29 wg 57 it ran 6.8888. Next round when fatter and it slowed for the conditions first round elims leaned it out and picked up. Kept it going until until air dropped 1200 feet then didn't have time for jet change just mab. it picked up until the air dropped more.

In a nut shell we are still finding limits. I've been told use the air bleeds more than jets by several carb guys here and real comfortable using them. I get more of a response from them than jets in the heat. When the air is great then I jet the hell out of it.

If I could change my dial to conditions then it would be easy. find the spot and leave it. and adjust with shoe polish. Index I don't have that option. We qualified with an 11.032 and was 10th. Who would have thought a MAB would pick up your 60'? :-k I hope that kind of lets you into my thinking process. =;

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Don't understand the whole MAB change to slow it down. Are you allowed any type of plate stop at all like
the EZ plate system?? You also need a O2 on that thing so you can see what your doing to the fuel curve and that does not mean you have to leave it on there so just for testing...If it was me I would want it to go at least 10.50 in some good air so you can run under that index so when the weather gets hot and humid it will still go high 10's.....
I know a few guys that run that EZ plate and have it down to a science. They have the carby tuned and never touch it. They just change a plate and it takes about 10 seconds...and can 10.00 or 10.05 just like that....... ;-)

Oh and a MAB change is not going to do anything for a starting line bog..

Check it out Steve.
http://www.restrictorplate.com/howitworks.html

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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:59 pm 
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We do have a plate. Not ez plate they came out afterwards. I use it to slow down. No O2 sensor. against the rules. After seeing how chucks worked this weekend I'll save my money. ;-) I don't use the bleeds to slow down. only to pick it up. Once I get it figured out all will be good. I'm just getting data. We are border line 11.00 in above 3000 ' DA got to lean it out in hot weather. Now I know the limit I'm good. I know what Jet and what bleed will work.

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:09 am 
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What I was saying was use the O2 for testing and once you get it right there is no need to touch the carb. Then remove it for your class racing. I know a lot of guys that do that.. It's not going to be constant with doing what your doing with the MAB and leaning it out on the top end is a bit dangerous. If you get it to where it starts to detonate your asking for trouble.
Head gasket, crack a piston land, even crack a cyd wall.. But it's your engine I just don't agree with your carb guy that using the bleeds to do what your doing... Also wondering why no one else has chimed in on this to give there 2 pennies on this..

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:05 am 
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Beretta wrote:
Also wondering why no one else has chimed in on this to give there 2 pennies on this..


You must be saying what everyone else would be saying. =; When we were testing with Chucks car he ran out of jets to get the O2 where they should be. We lowered the jets a bunch and it kept going faster and not changing O2 very much. It went from 5.24 to 5.16. Barry I agree with what your saying. I'm just doing it an other way.

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:07 am 
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WR169 wrote:
When we were testing with Chucks car he ran out of jets to get the O2 where they should be. We lowered the jets a bunch and it kept going faster and not changing O2 very much.



It's not that it wasn't changing Steve. The AFR indicated it was getting way leaner than what it should be. The O2 is a good tool to tune with it's just not reading what I expect it to. I planned on starting a thread on this.

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:10 am 
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Cool Chuck. Just using it as a reference. I just can't afford one now anyways. =;

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:00 pm 
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Hummmm I always seemed to start somewhat rich and kept on jetting up till the MPH slowed down then go down about 2 or 3 #'s and run it there...It if jumped around much I would go down another # and watch the MPH.
Now this was before all the O2 and EGT stuff we have now and my 540 on gas runs about 13.1 to 13.4 and the EGT's were 1380 to 1405 with it's best MPH.
The O2 and EGT is just a tool and as we know every body's engine will be somewhat different..
Looking forward to that new post Chuck..

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Barry I'm with you on this. In 3000+ feet I could not go up and be competitive in the class. I have to go lean to run the number in that DA. When the air gets better I will go in the other direction.

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Steve,
Just to help Barry out a little, the MAB normally changes the shape of the fuel curve from low RPM to high RPM. Once you have a good fuel curve, you should only have to change the main jet to richen or lean the whole curve, based on performance.

Normally, if you go to a larger MAB you lean out the upper RPM. A smaller MAB will normally richen up the upper RPM. The way that it works is, with no MAB, the carb will go rich as the RPM goes up, you add more MAB to control that richness, which helps to shape the total fuel curve.

By changing the MAB and getting a change in performance, you are probably changing the fuel curve enough to either help the lower RPM performance (60' times) and hurt the upper RPM performance (MPH) OR, hurt the lower RPM (60') and help the upper RPM (MPH). If you help them both, you're going in the right direction.

With an O2 sensor you can easily see the fuel curve shape and make decisions about your tune up. Without an O2 sensor you can still accomplish the same thing, it just takes longer, unless you're lucky.

The confusing part of this is, that by helping the first part of the run, you can affect the last part of the run. In other words, you can help the first part of the run enough that it looks like the whole run was better (better ET and/or MPH), even though the fuel curve was wrong for the last part of the run, and vice a versa.

You can figure it out without an O2 sensor, it'll just take more effort.

That's been my experience, hope it helps.

I do agree with Barry, trying to adjust your ET with the MAB seems to be a hard way to go.

Just my opinion,

I do enjoy watching you and Jakes success,

Congratulations and keep having fun,

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