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 Post subject: Gun Bans DO NOT WORK!
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Don't believe me? Just go ask our friends over in the UK!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rs-35.html

Gun crime soars by 35%

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The Government's latest crime figures were condemned as "truly terrible" by the Tories today as it emerged that gun crime in England and Wales soared by 35% last year.

Criminals used handguns in 46% more offences, Home Office statistics revealed.

Firearms were used in 9,974 recorded crimes in the 12 months to last April, up from 7,362.

It was the fourth consecutive year to see a rise and there were more than 2,200 more gun crimes last year than the previous peak in 1993.

Figures showed the number of crimes involving handguns had more than doubled since the post-Dunblane massacre ban on the weapons, from 2,636 in 1997-1998 to 5,871.

Unadjusted figures showed overall recorded crime in the 12 months to last September rose 9.3%, but the Home Office stressed that new procedures had skewed the figures.

With new recording procedures taken into account the actual overall rise was just 2%, the Home Office said.

Shadow home secretary Oliver Letwin said: "These figures are truly terrible.

"Despite the street crime initiative, robbery is massively up. So are gun-related crimes, domestic burglary, retail burglary, and drug offences.

"The only word for this is failure: the Government's response of knee-jerk reactions, gimmicks and initiatives is not working and confused signals on sentences for burglary will not help either.

"The figures will continue to be dreadful until the Government produces a coherent long term strategy to attack crime at its roots and get police visibly back on our streets."

Gun crime would not be cracked until gangs were broken up and the streets "reclaimed for the honest citizen by proper neighbourhood policing", he added.

Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Simon Hughes said the figures must prompt "a new, tougher approach" towards people who carry guns.

"Gangs which use and glorify guns as status symbols must be relentlessly targeted by the police," he added.

Home Office statistics showed gun crime has soared by nearly 600% since 1978 - when there were 1,437 firearms offences.

Gun crime has also increased by 65% since 1996, the year before Labour came to power.

Publishing today's figures, Home Office minister John Denham said: "I am concerned at the significant rise that we have seen in firearm offences.

"The number of male homicide victims of shootings was up 41% on the previous year and the proportion of crime in which firearms were used increased from 0.3% to 0.4%.

"We announced earlier this week that we would be introducing a five-year minimum sentence for possession of a firearm as well as new offences to tighten up the law on air weapons and replica firearms.

"The Home Secretary is holding a round table meeting tomorrow with key groups to make sure we are doing all we can to tackle gun crime."

He went on: "The overall crime picture shows a lot of progress.

"We must target our efforts on those areas that have not been moving in the right direction."

Domestic burglary figures increased 7.9% (or increased 5% when adjusted), figures which are likely to embarrass ministers in the wake of the Lord Chief Justice and Lord Chancellor's comments on jailing burglars.

Drug offences rose 12.3% and robbery was up 14.5% (up 13% adjusted).

The number of homicide victims killed by firearms increased 32%, or 23 cases, in the year to April 2002.

Overall there was a 1% rise in the number of homicides to 858 in England and Wales.

Violence against the person soared by 28% in the three months to September last year, which the Home Office adjusted to a 4% rise.

Over the same period sex offences were up 25.6%, but ministers said both crime categories had been inflated by changes to the way police record crime.

Three-quarters of firearms offences during the year, excluding air guns, took place in just five police forces: Metropolitan (42% of the total), Greater Manchester (14%), West Midlands (13%), West Yorkshire and Merseyside (both 3%).

The Association of Chief Police Officers' spokesman on crime policy, Paul Hampson, said: "The recent rise in firearms offences concerns all of us.

"Acpo is very supportive of the Government's intention to strengthen the law in relation to illegally-held firearms."

On burglary, Home Office statistics chief Professor Paul Wiles said the updated British Crime Survey (BCS), also published today, showed domestic burglary had fallen 7%, while recorded crime showed a "very tiny" increase of 2% in adjusted figures for the three months to September.

"The only sensible judgment from that is that we have a stable burglary position," he said.

Mr Denham added that the survey also showed there was a "worrying lack of confidence in the criminal justice system" with 44% of adults believing it was effective in bringing people to justice.

It was a priority of the Government to tackle that issue this year, he added.

Research from the BCS showed that less than half of adults (44%) believe the criminal justice system is effective in bringing people to justice.

Ministers claim that because the BCS is based on comprehensive victim-based research it is a more authoritative measure of crime.

Mr Denham said the survey showed that all crime was down by 7%, violent crime was down by 2%, domestic burglary was down by 7% and vehicle theft by 14%.

He said the survey trends since 1997 showed all crime down by 27%, burglary by 39%, vehicle theft by 32% and violent crime by 26%.

The Shooting Sports Trust said the rise in armed crime proved that strong measures against guns following the Dunblane massacre were "a mistake" and warned moves to remove fake guns from the streets could drive more criminals to obtain real firearms.

Chief executive of crime reduction charity Nacro, Paul Cavadino, said: "The statistics show that crime in England and Wales is continuing to fall. This must be welcomed."


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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:40 pm 
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O:) my surprised face!!!

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:11 pm 
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What gun bans do is create yet another black market opportunity and as long as they are made somewhere in the world, then they will be available everywhere in the world!


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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:36 pm 
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It also empowers the military and law enforcement. check out England. Prior to 2000 the Bobbies did not carry weapons. They policed with night sticks because guns were banned. Now that terrorism is in the fore front they carry them and the public has them cause of the black market.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:49 pm 
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All the criminals would have to do is request another "Fast and Furious" program from the government, and they would get them for free.


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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:38 pm 
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... and now, the rest of the story. A more balanced viewpoint ...

and then there is Japan with some very strict gun laws with very few gun deaths. More children were killed on Friday in that one incident than were killed with guns in Japan several years combined.

Washington Post wrote:
In 2008, when the United States experienced over 12,000 gun-related homicides, Japan had only 11, or fewer than half as many killed Friday in Newtown, Conn. That same year in the United States, 587 were killed just by accidental gun discharges. In 2006 in Japan, a nation of 128 million people, only two were killed by guns.

Then there is a country like Sweden that has lots of guns relative to population yet they have far fewer gun deaths (relatively) than the US. Canada has a low relative gun death rate also. Are colder people less likely to kill? What are we (U.S.) doing wrong? Is it the culture alone? or what?

I don't know what the whole answer is but I think SOME additional gun controls would be good. I see no reason anybody should have an assault rifle or any gun with large quantity clips. Not needed for protection or hunting. Who could be against this? Psyc tests might be good but that would be nearly impossible to do right.

Explosives are tightly controlled, illegal for people to have w/o a license. Should they legalize that? Explosives don't kill people, people kill people, right? Some things that make it too easy to kill large groups need some control or you will have to accept mass killings. I am not ready to accept them.

Do I think gun controls would have stopped this nut in Newtown? probably not, but it may have been enough to save some lives or he may have found a different way to do it. Nothing we can do will stop this completely. From the day the gun was invented it changed the world forever and you can't go back.

Rick


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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:40 am 
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OK, I can except a balanced viewpoint. (Paul Harvey is alive and well!) There is one that I don't feel has a balanced viewpoint. He hasn't given me any reason to think that he is unbiased. He called us angry bitter clingers to there guns and bible. He's the President. Apparently he has a problem with Guns and also the Christian Bible.


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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:28 am 
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The assault weapons ban was in place from 1994 to 2004. The article below, written in 2011 states that there was a decline in major crime in 2010, which was 6 years after the that weapons ban had expired? :-k Now a year and a half later we have these two incidents and the screams for the ban again are renewed?

Interesting to note here too that gun sales have skyrocketed since Oblamo was elected in 08. Could that have any bearing on the following quote?

"NEVER LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE!" Rahm Emanuel, Chicago, Ill.

Oh, and BTW, I've owned a couple of AK47s and an AR myself and they've never killed anyone! [-X Oh, and yes, I have hunted with those rifles!

Steady Decline in Major Crime Baffles Experts
By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.
Published: May 23, 2011

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html?_r=0

Quote:
The number of violent crimes in the United States dropped significantly last year, to what appeared to be the lowest rate in nearly 40 years, a development that was considered puzzling partly because it ran counter to the prevailing expectation that crime would increase during a recession.

In all regions, the country appears to be safer. The odds of being murdered or robbed are now less than half of what they were in the early 1990s, when violent crime peaked in the United States. Small towns, especially, are seeing far fewer murders: In cities with populations under 10,000, the number plunged by more than 25 percent last year.

The news was not as positive in New York City, however. After leading a long decline in crime rates, the city saw increases in all four types of violent lawbreaking — murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault — including a nearly 14 percent rise in murders. But data from the past few months suggest the city’s upward trend may have slowed or stopped.

Criminology experts said they were surprised and impressed by the national numbers, issued on Monday by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and based on data from more than 13,000 law-enforcement agencies. They said the decline nationally in the number of violent crimes, by 5.5 percent, raised the question, at least in some places, of to what extent crime could continue to fall — or at least fall at the same pace as the past two years. Violent crimes fell nearly the same amount in 2009.

“Remarkable,” said James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University. “Given the fact that we have had some healthy declines in recent years, I fully expected that the improvement would slow. There is only so much air you can squeeze out of a balloon.”

There was no immediate consensus to explain the drop. But some experts said the figures collided with theories about correlations between crime, unemployment and the number of people in prison.

Take robbery: The nation has endured a devastating economic crisis, but robberies fell 9.5 percent last year, after dropping 8 percent the year before.

“Striking,” said Alfred Blumstein, a professor and a criminologist at the Heinz College at Carnegie Mellon University, because it came “at a time when everyone anticipated it could be going up because of the recession.”

Nationally, murder fell 4.4 percent last year. Forcible rape — which excludes statutory rape and other sex offenses — fell 4.2 percent. Aggravated assault fell 3.6 percent. Property crimes — including burglary, larceny, motor vehicle theft and arson — fell 2.8 percent, after a 4.6 percent drop the year before.

But the gains were uneven. New York saw 536 murders last year — 65 more than in 2009, which was the lowest since 1963.

The number of rapes in New York City jumped 24.5 percent; robberies, 5.4 percent, and aggravated assaults, 3.2 percent.

New York was the only city with more than a million people besides San Antonio with an increase in the total number of violent crimes — a 4.6 percent jump, to 48,489 — and the only one besides Philadelphia to see a rise in murders.

Some experts cautioned against reading too much into the city’s numbers, noting that New York’s drop in violent crime over the last two decades has far outpaced many places, some of which are only now catching up.

“It’s been so huge, there’s always been this lingering question, how low could it go?” said Michael Jacobson, director of the Vera Institute of Justice, and a former New York City correction and probation commissioner.

There were 2,245 murders in New York in 1990, but the total has been less than 600 for the past nine years.

“One murder is too many, but the 2010 spike has to be viewed in the context of the historic low the year before,” said Paul J. Browne, the New York Police Department’s chief spokesman. He said the department was doing more to encourage victims to report rapes.

Eli Silverman, a professor emeritus at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said Mr. Browne’s account might only be a “partial explanation” — the other part, he said, was increased scrutiny of the integrity of the department’s crime statistics. When crime rates go up, the police say it is because they are encouraging more victims to come forward, Mr. Silverman said, “but when crime goes down, it’s the work of the police.”

Nationally, the drop in violent crime not only calls into question the theory that crime rates are closely correlated with economic hardship, but another argument as well, said Frank E. Zimring, a law professor at the University of California, Berkeley.

As the percentage of people behind bars has decreased in the past few years, violent crime rates have fallen as well. For those who believed that higher incarceration rates inevitably led to less crime, “this would also be the last time to expect a crime decline,” he said.

“The last three years have been a contrarian’s delight — just when you expect the bananas to hit the fan,” said Mr. Zimring, a visiting law professor at New York University and the author of a coming book on the decline in the city’s crime rate.

But he said there was no way to know why — at least not yet.

“The only thing that is reassuring being in a room full of crime experts now is that they are as puzzled as I am,” he said.


Joseph Goldstein contributed reporting.


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:30 am 
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AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

April 13, 2009

Quote:
It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

While this doesn't prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them, says the Examiner.

Source: Howard Nemerov, "Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban," D.C. Examiner, April 8, 2009.


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